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Renaming Admins (was "Shirriffs?")

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Please state your preference among the following choices:
I prefer that our Administrators continue to be referred to as "Administrators (sometimes shortened to "Admins.")
  
15% [ 2 ]
I prefer that our Administrators be referred to as "Rangers."
  
69% [ 9 ]
I prefer that our Administrators be referred to as "Shirriffs."
  
8% [ 1 ]
I prefer that our Administrators be referred to as "Gaffers" and "Gammers."
  
8% [ 1 ]
I prefer that our Administrators be referred to as "Seneschals."
  
0% [ 0 ]
Total votes: 13
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Post subject: Renaming Admins (was "Shirriffs?")
Posted: Fri 27 May , 2005 9:12 pm
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Friends, the time has come to decide once and for all the fate of the suggestion that I made at the very beginning of this convention. That is whether we should refer to our admins as Shirriffs? All this should require is a simple yes or no poll; it should not distract us significantly from the rest of our work. I can't imagine that too many people have too much more to say on this subject, but I'll leave this up for discussion for a few days before putting up the poll.

Edit: I have added the poll, which I will leave up for 48 hours, or until everyone has voted.

Last edited by Voronwë_the_Faithful on Tue 31 May , 2005 2:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Cerin
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Posted: Fri 27 May , 2005 9:21 pm
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I agree, a simple poll should do the trick.

My only concern with 'shirriffs' is that it might have strong-arm law enforcement connotations for those not familiar with Tolkien. I'm by no means decided on the issue, though.


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Holbytla
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Posted: Fri 27 May , 2005 9:21 pm
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If I ever hold an admin position here I insist on being called admin.
Anyone else can call themselves anything they would like. :)

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truehobbit
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Posted: Fri 27 May , 2005 9:26 pm
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From Tolkien's description of Shire Shirriffs, I think it's an apt name.

But in the minds of most people I guess (or maybe that's just my mind), a shirrif first and foremost reminds you of sheriff, who in general usage of the word is a person who sees to it that order is kept.
If you hear that an admin is called shirriff, you'd just think that they are the people who upkeep order - doing what mods and admins do on normal boards.

I think, people will have trouble accepting that our admins don't have power like mods and admins on normal boards. Calling them Shirriffs isn't going to make understanding that easier.

Maybe if we explain about our admins and their role and quote the relevant bit from Tolkien.

Which is all just to say that I'm not sure. :)

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Fri 27 May , 2005 9:34 pm
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I think that if we want to give our admins a name redolent of Tolkien we should search for one that better describes what they do.

It doesn't have to be a word from Tolkien. One of our resident language experts could perhaps offer some Anglo-Saxon words that would fit the bill.

Jn

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Fri 27 May , 2005 9:42 pm
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[rant]I, for one, hate being called an admin. It conjures up images of the discrimination that administrative employees suffer at the hands of their "professional" colleagues.

This is a subject that I know well, having been a "support staff" worker for a good 15 years before I became a lawyer. I'm exactly the same person that I was then (just older, fatter, greyer, and maybe a little wiser) but the difference in the way I am treated is remarkable. Even when I worked for a non-profit like the Humane Society of the U.S., the head of the department that I worked for insisted that I and the other support staff call him Dr. XXXXXX but allowed even the youngest and greenest "professional" staff to call him John.

Its funny because when I was in law school and started working in a law office (for a wonderful older attorney who quickly recognized that I could do most of his work for him) I had to deal directly with attorneys because, who would almost inevitably treat me with complete condescendation. Rarely could they get past the fact that I was a "lesser person" then they were, even if it was abundantly clear that I understood the legal issues better then they did. Now, as an attorney myself who runs his own office with no help, I strive to deal as much as possible with the office staff who, in addition to being overwhelmingly female, inevitably are the ones that actually know what is going on. I get so much more done dealing with them then with their so-called bosses. And I consider it a small victory when I can convince a legal secretary or paralegal who works for an opposing attorney to call me Doug rather then Mr. Kane.

Doesn't happen very often though, I am afraid.[/rant]


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IdylleSeethes
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Posted: Sat 28 May , 2005 12:38 am
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The position is of a Steward, which although very Tolkienesque, doesn't quite conjure up the right image due to PJ's excesses.

From medieval literature, we have Seneschal and Castellan. Although Seneschal later developed aspects of military command and judicial authority, the earliest association is with oversight of the royal household. Kay (Cei, Kei Kai) was Arthur's foster brother and Seneschal. Castellan is roughly the same position. I prefer the French Chatelain.

So, what do we think of Seneschal¿


Edit:

I'm inclined to agree with Voronwe on admin.

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truehobbit
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Posted: Sat 28 May , 2005 1:02 am
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LOL, Voronwe, I thought you objected to admin because it sounded like too much power, but in fact it's because IRL administrators are the underdogs?

I somehow think, that with how we envisage the office, that's quite fitting a term! ;) :P

I like the idea of calling them admins officially, but each admin can call him- or herself what they like! :D

Hmmmh - on Seneschal

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Cerin
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Posted: Sat 28 May , 2005 1:13 am
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Seneschal is a lovely sounding word. And what would be the plural?


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IdylleSeethes
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Posted: Sat 28 May , 2005 1:27 am
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I expected to find a use of Seneschal in Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, editted by Tolkien, because I think I remember the term being used in Sword of the Valiant which as an adaptation, but it isn't there. The only usage I know of is in the History of the Lord of the Rings by Christopher in relation to Galdor., "the old Seneschal of Edoras".

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IdylleSeethes
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Posted: Sat 28 May , 2005 1:31 am
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Cerin,

Just plain old Seneschals.

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IdylleSeethes
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Posted: Sat 28 May , 2005 2:00 am
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I forgot Thain, the title Pallidin Took II (Pippin's father) held. It shows up in the scouring (thanks PJ). It is roughly equivalent to Seneschal. Also Thegn and Thane, as in Macbeth, Thane of Cawdor, one of my many unpleasant ancestors.

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Holbytla
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Posted: Sat 28 May , 2005 2:14 am
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Sharkey’s Men
Ruffians
Snaga

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IdylleSeethes
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Posted: Sat 28 May , 2005 2:44 am
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Holby,

If we're going down that path, why go part way¿. Ringwraith or Nazgul seem far better.

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Cerin
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Posted: Sat 28 May , 2005 3:05 am
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The Nazgul!!! :D :D :D


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IdylleSeethes
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Posted: Sat 28 May , 2005 3:37 am
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After I posted here, I noticed Prim mentioned Thain as an alternative to Mayor elsewhere. I have to agree that Thain, Seneschal, and Castellan aren't quite congruent with admin. The King may have multiples, but only one per venue. Which only means we need to be like the RCC and appoint them as Seneschals of non-existent places. Or maybe Voronwe_Seneschal_of _the_Faithful. There is a similar lack of congruence to Mayor. At least in the US, the Mayor has no superior, while T, S, and C, are subordinate to the King.

I do like Nazgul as a sign we don't take ourselves to seriously.

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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Sat 28 May , 2005 3:39 am
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IdylleSeethes wrote:
I do like Nazgul as a sign we don't take ourselves to seriously.
Sez you.

If only Tolkien had been as into governmental structure as George Lucas is! Then we would have exact names for all these positions.

Of course, the books would have been forgotten by 1960.

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Sat 28 May , 2005 4:30 am
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We could do what the Brits do and call them Peers.

Jn

Edit: and ... thumbing the thesaurus ....

yields both "gaffer" and "reeve" as rough synonyms for seneschal. There's also "yeoman."

Seneschal is a beautiful word, but it feels to me like it needs a nickname. :neutral:

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Cerin
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Posted: Sat 28 May , 2005 5:04 am
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The gaffers! What could be better?! I love it. :)


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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Sat 28 May , 2005 6:16 am
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In ther Shire, though aren't they "gaffers and gammers," depending on gender?

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