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VOTE OVER: Loremaster Revisited

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*Alandriel*
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Posted: Fri 03 Jun , 2005 7:53 am
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Question 1: B

Question 2:
DCABE


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Leoba
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Posted: Fri 03 Jun , 2005 8:17 am
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BALLOT
Interim Vote on Procedural Oversight

Question 1:
B. I do not agree with this statement.

Question 2:
#1= D
#2= C
#3= A
#4= E
#5= B

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truehobbit
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Posted: Fri 03 Jun , 2005 12:05 pm
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Question 1:

A. I agree with this statement.


Question 2: Please state your preference for who should be responsible for performing this function.

#1= A
#2= D
#3= C
#4= B
#5= E

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Alatar
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Posted: Fri 03 Jun , 2005 1:32 pm
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Interim Vote on Procedural Oversight

Question 1:
A. I agree with this statement.

Question 2:

#1= D
#2= E
#3= C
#4= B
#5= A

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Cerin
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Posted: Fri 03 Jun , 2005 1:41 pm
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Dindraug wrote:
The problems were not in just the undefined proceedures, but in the restrictions imposed by the people administrating said proceedures and their lack of understanding. I see little difference in what has happened here recently.
I sure wish I understood better what was troubling you.


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IdylleSeethes
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Posted: Fri 03 Jun , 2005 4:02 pm
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Question 1: A.

Question 2:

#1 B
#2 E
#3 D
#4 C
#5 A


At Voronwe's request, I have reluctantly voted. This is an idea I have promoted as being essential and although I disagree with the content of the ballot, I appreciate everyone's hard work and the willingness to reconsider. If Voronwe hadn't agreed to fixing the original flaw, this vote wouldn't be taking place. I do feel like I am deserting Cerin, since her objection is based on an issue I identified and with which I still have a problem. So I have to give thanks to both Cerin and Voronwe.

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Dindraug wrote:
Quote:
The problems were not in just the undefined proceedures, but in the restrictions imposed by the people administrating said proceedures and their lack of understanding.
You are absolutely correct. All the more reason to accept the responsibility of creating an environment to foster fairness.

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Cerin
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Posted: Fri 03 Jun , 2005 4:07 pm
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I do not feel deserted, Idylle. :)


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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Fri 03 Jun , 2005 4:24 pm
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And I have to clarify that I did not intend to request that you vote, Idylle, but simply wanted to know whether you planned to do so, since everyone else had done so.

Here are the results as I count them (Cerin, let me know if you are willing to check my count on this one or whether I need to get someone else to do so):

Question 1:

A. 9
B. 4

(one abstension on principle)

Question 2:

D - 9
A, B, C and E - 1 each

(one abstension on principle)

I have to say that I am very pleased with the quick response to this vote and to the Mayor vote. :)


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Cerin
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Posted: Fri 03 Jun , 2005 4:36 pm
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Voronwe_the_Faithful wrote:
Cerin, let me know if you are willing to check my count on this one or whether I need to get someone else to do so
I've been eagerly waiting for you to ask me that, Voronwe, as I think it finally gives me an opportunity to :salmon:

(Yes, of course I will count.)

Edit

I started compiling the votes earlier, which wasn't perhaps the wisest approach. If anyone has changed any of their votes throughout the course of the voting, please let me know so that I can go back and change my results.


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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Sat 04 Jun , 2005 7:14 am
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I think that given the results of this vote, an addition needs to be made to the text of the Mayor article. Perhaps under "Recordingkeeping could be added something like:
Quote:
Loremasters

Maintain a list of volunteers who are willing to sufficiently familarize themselves with the Charter and provide procedural oversight of hearings, to ensure that proper procedure is followed and to provide a resource for hearing participants, so that the participants can concentrate on the substantive issues of the hearing. When a hearing arises, the Jury may choose to ask one of these volunteer Loremasters to oversee the hearing.
There probably should be something added to the dispute resolution article, as well. Jn, this time I'm not going to be coy. I'm going to flat ask for your suggestion as to how to handle it.


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Jnyusa
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Posted: Sat 04 Jun , 2005 5:07 pm
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Thanks, V. Yes, I was thinking about this last night.

We did not create an elected office, so it has to go as an additional paragraph into Article 5: Dispute Resolution, ¶4 Hearings.

And then we have to put a BIG special notice up in the Business Forum that the article under discussion for ratification has been amended by one paragraph.

I will rush to do this right now. I just have to look at the ballot text again, and will first post Approved Text here, and show the members where it will go in the Charter.

Hang on!

Jn

Edit: ach! just looked at the clock and can't get to this right now. Will try to do it within the hour.

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Sat 04 Jun , 2005 5:57 pm
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FOR YOUR REVIEW

(This would appear as the last paragraph of Article 5, ¶4, following the clause that elements of the case may be preserved in the Archive. I've tried to present it the way Mediators are presented in ¶1)

APPROVED TEXT

A jury may request that an independent member provide procedural oversight of their hearing to ensure that proper procedure is followed and to act as a resource for hearing participants, allowing the participants to concentrate on substantive issues. Members of the Jury Pool who have volunteered to familiarize themselves thoroughly with the Charter and to act in this oversight capacity are designated as Loremasters in the Jury Pool list. Service as a Loremaster in a particular hearing is voluntary.

A member may not serve as Loremaster to a Hearing if they are involved in the Hearing in any other capacity; and if a Hearing that employed a Loremaster is appealed, the Loremaster must be prepared to explain to the Appeals panel the rationale behind procedures that are in question.

If the Jury makes use of a Loremaster, the Loremaster's name and function will be listed in the first post of the thread along with the jurors and the administrator(s) who convened the Hearing.

*******
We should give a few hours for committee members to see this and make sure it expresses what we did, and then I will post a BIG notice in the Bforum thread.

Jn

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Cerin
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Posted: Sat 04 Jun , 2005 6:02 pm
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I think it's excellent! Beautifully worded, wonderfully clear. :love:


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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Sat 04 Jun , 2005 7:02 pm
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That's great, Jn. But then, it always is. :):D :love:

Just to be clear, do you also agree that language such as what I proposed should be added to the Mayor's duties, since we approved that the Mayor would keep the list of voluntee loremasters?


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Jnyusa
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Posted: Sat 04 Jun , 2005 7:14 pm
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Yes, sorry V., I missed that. It should be added to the record-keeping functions of the Mayor, and I'll go to the thread and do that right now.

I haven't added article 4 into the Actual Document yet - I've been waiting for member comments before moving it.

Jn

edit: fixed Mayor article ... and realized, just btw, that we did not say who or how the qualification of a member to be a Loremaster would be determined. :oops:

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Sat 04 Jun , 2005 7:23 pm
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In a way, we have, Jn. As it stands now, anyone who volunteers to familiarize themselves with the charter sufficiently to do the task qualifies to be a Loremaster. If we find that we are having people make this offer and not live up to it, we will need to revisit the question of more stringent qualification requirements.


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Cerin
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Posted: Sat 04 Jun , 2005 9:24 pm
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I agree with Voronwe. What we have now says what the requirements are, and presumably those are the people who will volunteer.


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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Mon 06 Jun , 2005 3:12 pm
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