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What to do with old discussions about TORC? - POLL OVER!

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What do you want to be done with the threads in question - READ FIRST POST BEFORE VOTING!
I agree with the Basic Package and want the Individual Decision threads deleted.
  
2% [ 1 ]
I agree with the Basic Package and want the Individual Decision threads locked and left visible.
  
82% [ 37 ]
I agree with the Basic Package with the exception that I would like the following threads to be deleted: Please post and list by thread number all the threads you want deleted, including the Individual Decision threads if you want those deleted.
  
9% [ 4 ]
I want all the threads to be deleted or hidden when we open
  
7% [ 3 ]
Total votes: 45
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Impenitent
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Posted: Thu 23 Jun , 2005 1:56 am
Try to stay perky
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truehobbit wrote:
E* and Wilma, it's tough to write up against counter-arguments coming from all sides, and I know it feels like everybody is just refusing to see things your way, but in fact it's just that the majority has a different opinion. That doesn't mean that your opinion shouldn't be heard!...
Moreover, I think there are many who somewhat share your point of view. I don't disagree with you; simply that after weighing it all, my personal view (only mine and no imposition on anyone else) is that transparency is the better option.

I've tried not to weigh in on this discussion because I participated so little (and so meekly) in those threads, being somewhat on the outside or on the fence throughout it. I feel uncomfortable about speaking up about it in consequence


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laureanna
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Posted: Thu 23 Jun , 2005 2:30 am
Triathlete
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*E*, I know how much you were upset by the Grey Havens threads disappearing. I'm sad to see them go, too. (Especially since I never saw them - they were on my to do list.) Please understand that I would feel the same way if the controversial threads here disappeared, because they are an important part of my online history. There's authenticity and sponteneity in them that would not be possible to reconstruct by tomorrow's historians.

I think it is important to stand by what I post, or else I don't post it to begin with. I don't mean this to put anyone else down, just to explain that I am natually paranoid, especially on the Internet, and I post with the assumption that anything I say can get out there for all to see and by the person I least expect to have access to my words.

I was reeling when I got banned, and said some things in anger, but they were my feelings and I can't deny them now just make other people feel cozy. If it somehow gets me banned on TORC again, then that is their loss. If it loses me some friends, then perhaps they were fairweather friends. I'm hoping the true friends will PM me if they are upset or confused about something I said.

And for what it's worth, I don't see a huge storm coming. I see a dozen people joining, including one or two who join to harrass, and quickly find a lack of sport (due to our incredible restraint around trolls, right?). Then a slow trickle of a few people joining a week. Really a non-event.

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Thu 23 Jun , 2005 2:53 am
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I was going to cut and paste and respond to the various parts of laureanna's post, until I realized that I all I was saying was that I agreed with everything that she says.

So I'll just say that I agree with everything that laureanna just said. :)


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*E*V*E*N*S*T*A*R*
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Posted: Thu 23 Jun , 2005 9:17 am
I've cried a thousand oceans, and I would cry a thousand more if that's what it takes to sail you home.
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I just wanted to say that I'm not worried about people not agreeing with me. I just had issues with the some of the attitudes I detected, for whatever reason they may have been.

No, I tend to naturally go along with the crowd because I'm not very opinionated, and am open-minded to a fault. Like, there's not many opinions I do have that aren't willing to change for fair reason. It was sort of a shame that this disagreement came on such a big issue, one that I really felt should have turned out a certain way, but I now recognize that there's no smart or dumb thing to do, nor a right or wrong way to do it, because it all comes down to your personal outlook anyway. If all the worst things I imagine happen, as I said before, it's still not going to convince some of you it was a mistake to keep the threads viewable, and that is not wrong of you think so. Due to that, it really doesn't matter what I say, not because I suggested a different course of action or said it too late, but because I'm going to look at any problems that arise differently from anyone else (as are they), and that's really what it all depends on, so it probably don't matter whether the threads are viewable or hidden. I posted something like this a couple pages ago, so it didn't suddenly pop into my head, okay?

Speaking of that -

Laureanna, I definitely never wanted the threads destroyed, I just didn't want them available for other people to see and constantly bring up. I wanted them available for us, and even if they could be kept on the boards, I would have wished for them to stay there somehow. If they were deleted entirely, it would have been upsetting to lose that post count since I'm one of those people who do take pride in the high numbers (it makes me think I've worked hard to contribute however-many funny, serious, informative, etc. posts). Losing post counts is like falling down a hill for me. But even if that happened, I'd be satisfied knowing a copy of them was on a disc somewhere so I could refer to them whenever I wanted. Reading up on the TORC posts yesterday and the day before was so fun. I mostly stuck to my own, but I was in tears laughing at others, and remembering the insanity surrounding those few months of threads. Some day, having joined in October of 2004 is going to be a big darn accomplishment and people will finally look at me like they do at some of you TORC oldbies. I look forward to that.

I must strongly point out that it was never a case of me not standing by what I've said, it's just that if I knew certain people would read it, I probably would have softened it up a bit. There were lots of different approaches I took to writing on TORC during that time - super sweet (to Ted), calling Inny on her games, defending B77 as fairly as possible. I read a few things I'd said to oldtoby before he was a member here and blushed like crazy - I wasn't necessarily mean to him, but I was replying to his sentiments, not him as a person, and now that I know him a little better as that, I am somewhat embarrassed by my previous statements. Doesn't mean I think they're bullshit, there's just different ways to go about saying what you need.

The fact is, I went through every post of mine in those "problem" threads, and my grand total of deletions came to: 1. Just one. Then I edited a few spelling errors along the way.

Having been burned by very close friends over the simplest of sentences from myself, I've no doubt that anyone can twist my words into the worst their imagination and ill intents can come up with, but I've never been ashamed by anything I've written, for I recognize that they served a purpose during the time I wrote them. I, too, write assuming certain peoples may end up reading it, but perhaps my weakness is that I also write assuming they may ask me to elaborate on something, when I know that the folks who scare me are the ones that aren't going to give me that chance. This is where I get protective and try to hide things from everyone.
laureanna wrote:
If it somehow gets me banned on TORC again, then that is their loss. If it loses me some friends, then perhaps they were fairweather friends. I'm hoping the true friends will PM me if they are upset or confused about something I said.
I generally agree with you, I just hate the thought of getting kicked out of anywhere, whether I go there often or not. My parents recently missed the point when I said I wouldn't ever want dad to think of me with the negative thoughts he has towards my spinster aunt. Mom was like, "oh, if he has a problem with you, he'll let you know," and I emphasized that it wasn't being told that worried me, but knowing dad had a problem with me period! Mom says, "he'd let you know, though!" No, I don't like that thought being there in the first place. I wouldn't be happy with him bottling it up, of course, but I wouldn't want my father thinking ill of me at all, regardless of me knowing about it. It makes me very uncomfortable knowing that people don't like me, but unlike my father, I doubt I could have a rational conversation about it with them. One where we worked it out and had one less problem in our lives. :neutral: Suppose I can't do much about it, but it makes me uncomfortable all the same.




*E*

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Wilma
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Posted: Thu 23 Jun , 2005 10:03 am
Takoyaki is love
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*E*V*E*N*S*T*A*R* wrote:
I must strongly point out that it was never a case of me not standing by what I've said, it's just that if I knew certain people would read it, I probably would have softened it up a bit. There were lots of different approaches I took to writing on TORC during that time - super sweet (to Ted), calling Inny on her games, defending B77 as fairly as possible. I read a few things I'd said to oldtoby before he was a member here and blushed like crazy - I wasn't necessarily mean to him, but I was replying to his sentiments, not him as a person, and now that I know him a little better as that, I am somewhat embarrassed by my previous statements. Doesn't mean I think they're bullshit, there's just different ways to go about saying what you need.
Thank You for saying what I couldn't. I have been burned too many times too.

About being banned. I just am not able to keep up correspondence though email or IM (Also, I do not really have anyones IM names or anything). It is extremely difficult for me since I am so scatterbrained. This is apart of why I value messageboards so much, I really never would have been able to keep with anyone online otherwise, this is why I want to avoid banning. It's either a messageboard or nothing. :( Also, a one on one conversation is totally different from a group conversation.

Also, I have noticed that people keep ssaying from what they remember what I have said. Well I have read what I said and they were pretty blunt and harsh. I do not like rewriting history but I also, do not want lose out with keeping up with friends on another board. I am toatlly torn and I can't make up my mind what to do. I truly wish I hadn't participated on any of those threads. I truly wish it had been explicitly stated that what I said 4 months ago on a closed board would be public. I have been burned too many times. I do not know what to do.

I wish I was brave enough to actually leave the board but I do not think I can stick to that. I guess I will be blunt I do not want to be hurt anymore It hurt being banned and I do not want to be hurt like that again. That what it comes down to for me. I hope all the people coming here eager to judge read this. I most certainly did not deserve to be hurt like that.

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ToshoftheWuffingas
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Posted: Thu 23 Jun , 2005 10:49 am
Filthy darwinian hobbit
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No you didn't. :hug:

Bear in mind you weren't banned through anything you said. You weren't banned through any malice to you or even hostility. You were banned through simple stupidity by someone who knew fuck all about anyone. I doubt if he could remember the names of the people on that list now.
No one has seen me cross but if anyone lays a hand on you Wilma here or on TORC over this by God let them beware.

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truehobbit
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Posted: Sat 25 Jun , 2005 11:11 pm
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Well, friends, the poll is done, I think the result is pretty clear - from what I know Prim and Voronwe will go about locking and adding disclaimers later tonight!

I'm making a start by locking this! :D

(Edit: That is, I hope that by locking this, the poll function also somehow closes down - not sure if it does, though.)

(And, hey, I can edit this without unlocking - teh powah is so cool! :D ;) )


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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Sun 26 Jun , 2005 1:45 am
Living in hope
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Hey, we can reply without unlocking! :D

I unlocked this because the forum looks better that way—it's read-only so nobody can post anyway.

But I'm leaving it stickied for reference until Voronwë and I finish with the threads tonight.



(I think we can only edit without unlocking! ;) - TH (who wanted to edit that in all the time :P ) 06.07. )




The thirty-one threads referred to in this discussion are not Invitation threads. They are discussion threads from several other forums and they still remain on the board in the forum where they originated. Their actual contents can be read by anyone. We have removed the thread titles and the links because it is not our desire to encourage the re-opening of old wounds, but we remain willing to discuss the contents of these threads with anyone who wishes to do so.



(Paragraph in blue inserted at request of other members, TH, 06.07.05)

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