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Article 7: Binding Votes: VOTE OVER: Discuss continued

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Faramond
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Posted: Mon 04 Jul , 2005 8:54 pm
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I have to be honest here.

After reading this thread, I have no idea how to vote on some of these issues. For instance, the quorum method. Without seeing what this board will be like in the future, I don't think I can rationally pick between the options.

I am also concerned about the committee having to much discretion over vote percentages. I'm still thinking about this, though.


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IdylleSeethes
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Posted: Tue 05 Jul , 2005 3:00 am
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Voronwe,

I'm sorry for causing the distress. I'm not at all concerned about the past or current issues and I don't think you are the least bit guilty of manipulation. I'm concerned about the future, when all of this discussion is forgotten and we are left with a set of rules that can be manipulated. Setting the percentage required to win a vote does have consequences. Maybe I've just spent too much time around the darker side of government, but it seems to me that all opportunities for abuse are eventually taken advantage of.

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Tue 05 Jul , 2005 12:26 pm
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VOTING IS NOW OPEN.

Voting will end Thursday at noon GMT (8:00 am EDT, 5:00 am PDT)

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Epigraph on the tombstone of W.C. Fields.


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Alatar
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Posted: Tue 05 Jul , 2005 1:42 pm
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Question 1: approval of opening paragraphs
A. I approve the text of the opening paragraphs

Question 2: approving the composition of committees convened by the Mayor/Rangers

A. I approve the composition of these committees

Question 3: approving the composition of committees convened by member initiative

A. I approve the composition of these committees

Question 4: approving the final two paragraphs of ¶1

A. I approve the text of the closing paragraphs of ¶1

Question 5:
A. I agree with the provisions of this paragraph

Question 6: approve the following text, subject to Questions 7 and 8.

A. I approve the text, subject to Questions 7 and 8

Question 7: A binding vote cannot be held for a proposition that has been defeated during the past:
B. 6 months

Question 8: A proposition cannot be voted on more often than:
B. twice in a year

Question 9: approve the following functions of the committee, subject to the results of Question 5 (if there is not regular voting cycle, then the text in italics will be removed)

A. I approve these functions, subject to Question 5

Question 10:
A. I approve this text

Question 11:
A. I approve this text

Question 12:

For a vote to be binding, a quorum of the members must vote, defined as:

1. B
2. C
3. D
4. E
5. A

Question 13: approve the voting forms recognized by the board (all have been used by the board in the past)
B. I wish to exclude voting form [#2]

Question 14: majority requirement for simple polls
1. B
2. A
3. C
4. D

Question 15: majority requirement for aggregated percentages
1. A
2. B
3. C

Question 16: majority requirement for instant runoff votes
B. 67% of the vote

Question 17: function of the committee
A. I approve this function of the committee

Question 18: approve this manner of archiving results (it is what we use for the Charter), time frame for execution, and dissolution of the committee
A. I approve the text of this paragraph

Question 19: approve that the following require a binding vote
A. I agree that all of those actions should require a binding vote

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Tue 05 Jul , 2005 3:12 pm
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Question 1
A. I approve the text of the opening paragraphs

Question 2:
A. I approve the composition of these committees

Question 3
A. I approve the composition of these committees

Question 4
A. I approve the text of the closing paragraphs of ¶1

Question 5:

A. I agree with the provisions of this paragraph

Question 6:
A. I approve the text, subject to Questions 7 and 8 8

Question 7:
B. 6 months

Question 8:
B. twice in a year

Question 9:
A. I approve these functions, subject to Question 5

Question 10:
A. I approve this text

Question 11:
A. I approve this text


Question 12:
1. A
2. B
3. D
4. C
5. E

Question 13:
A. I approve all three voting forms

Question 14:

1. D
2. B
3. A
4. C

Question 15:
1. C
2. B
3. A

Question 16:
A. 51% of the vote

Question 17:
A. I approve this function of the committee

Question 18:
A. I approve the text of this paragraph

Question 19:
A. I agree that all of those actions should require a binding vote


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*Alandriel*
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Posted: Tue 05 Jul , 2005 6:38 pm
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Question 1:
A. I approve the text of the opening paragraphs


Question 2:
A. I approve the composition of these committees


Question 3:
A. I approve the composition of these committees


Question 4:
A. I approve the text of the closing paragraphs of 1


Question 5:
A. I agree with the provisions of this paragraph


Question 6:
A. I approve the text, subject to Questions 7 and 8

Question 7:
B. 6 months

Question 8:
B. twice in a year

Question 9:
A. I approve these functions, subject to Question 5


Question 10:
A. I approve this text


Question 11:
A. I approve this text


Question 12:
1. B
2. C
3. D
4. E
5. A

Question 13:
A. I approve all three voting forms


Question 14:
1. B
2. D
3. C
4. A

Question 15:
1. B
2. C
3. A

Question 16:
B. 67% of the vote

Question 17:
A. I approve this function of the committee


Question 18:
A. I approve the text of this paragraph


Question 19: A. I agree that all of those actions should require a binding vote


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Jnyusa
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Posted: Tue 05 Jul , 2005 10:05 pm
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Question 1: A.

Question 2: A.

Question 3: A.

Question 4: A.

Question 5: A.

Question 6: A.

Question 7: B.

Question 8: B.

Question 9: A.

Question 10: A.

Question 11: A.

Question 12:
1. B.
2. A.
3. C.
4. D.
5. E.

Question 13: A.

Question 14:
1. B
2. A
3. C
4. D

Question 15:
1. B
2. A
3. C

Question 16: A.

Question 17: A.

Question 18: A.

Question 19: A.

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Impenitent
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Posted: Wed 06 Jul , 2005 2:55 am
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Question 1:
A. I approve the text of the opening paragraphs

Question 2:
A. I approve the composition of these committees

Question 3:
A. I approve the composition of these committees

Question 4:
A. I approve the text of the closing paragraphs of ¶1

Question 5:
A. I agree with the provisions of this paragraph

Question 6:
A. I approve the text, subject to Questions 7 and 8

Question 7:
B. 6 months

Question 8:
B. twice in a year

Question 9:
A. I approve these functions, subject to Question 5

Question 10:
A. I approve this text

Question 11:
A. I approve this text

Question 12:
1. C.
2. B.
3. A.
4. D.
5. E.

Question 13:
A. I approve all three voting forms

Question 14:
1. B
2. A
3. C
4. D

Question 15:
1. A
2. B
3. C

Question 16:
A. 51% of the vote

Question 17:
A. I approve this function of the committee

Question 18:
A. I approve the text of this paragraph

Question 19:
A. I agree that all of those actions should require a binding vote


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IdylleSeethes
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Posted: Wed 06 Jul , 2005 5:40 am
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Question 1: A

Question 2: A

Question 3: A

Question 4: A

Question 5: A

Question 6: A

Question 7: B

Question 8: B

Question 9: A

Question 10: A

Question 11: A

Question 12:
1. A
2. B
3. D
4. C
5. E

Question 13: A

Question 14:
1. B
2. A
3. C
4. D

Question 15:
1. B
2. A
3. C

Question 16: A

Question 17: A

Question 18: A

Question 19: A

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truehobbit
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Posted: Wed 06 Jul , 2005 5:08 pm
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Question 1:
A. I approve the text of the opening paragraphs


Question 2:

A. I approve the composition of these committees


Question 3:
A. I approve the composition of these committees


Question 4:
A. I approve the text of the closing paragraphs of ¶1


Question 5:

A. I agree with the provisions of this paragraph


Question 6:

A. I approve the text, subject to Questions 7 and 8


Question 7:
A. 3 months


Question 8:

B. twice in a year

Question 9:
A. I approve these functions, subject to Question 5


Question 10:

A. I approve this text


Question 11:

A. I approve this text


Question 12:

A quorum should be defined as:

A. 30% of the number of members active over the past 30 days
B. 30% of the number of members active over the past 60 days
C. 50% of the number of members active over the past 60 days
D. 30% of the number of members active over the past 90 days
E. 50% of the number of members active over the past 90 days


1. B
2. D
3. C
4. E
5. A

Question 13:
A. I approve all three voting forms

Question 14:

A. 51% of the voting members accept it
B. 67% of the voting members accept it
C. 80% of the voting members accept it
D. The committee will decide which percentage is appropriate to the issue

PLEASE RANK YOUR CHOICES, with #1 being most preferred
1. D
2. B
3. A
4. C

Question 15:

1. C
2. A
3. B

Question 16:

A. 51% of the vote


(Which one are we using now? I realised that I don't know that! :Q )

Question 17:
A. I approve this function of the committee


Question 18:
A. I approve the text of this paragraph

Voting yes, because it sounds ok, but I don't know what a "resolution of the Membership" is.
If the result of the vote takes the form of a Resolution of the Membership, the resolution will be recorded with the by-laws.:help:


Question 19:
A. I agree that all of those actions should require a binding vote

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We listen to one another, make good-faith efforts to understand one another, and we treat one another respectfully at all times.


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truehobbit
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Posted: Wed 06 Jul , 2005 5:14 pm
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I have to apologise again about not having got round to read the discussion or even the draft ballot!

I think there's an error in the ballot, though.
Quote:
A binding vote cannot be held for a proposition that has been defeated by an earlier vote during the past [3 months, 6 months] and the same proposition cannot be voted on more often than [twice in one year, twice in two years].
This made a lot of sense to me, when I read it - but on voting I found these options:
Quote:
Question 8: A proposition cannot be voted on more often than:

PLEASE SELECT
A. once in a year
B. twice in a year
This didn't make sense, as option A defeats the purpose of question 7, so I came back to ask about it.

After re-reading it, I think it must be a mistake, no?

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We listen to one another, make good-faith efforts to understand one another, and we treat one another respectfully at all times.


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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Wed 06 Jul , 2005 11:26 pm
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Question 1:
A. I approve the text of the opening paragraphs

Question 2:
A. I approve the composition of these committees

Question 3:
A. I approve the composition of these committees

Question 4:
A. I approve the text of the closing paragraphs of ¶1

Question 5:
A. I agree with the provisions of this paragraph

Question 6:
A. I approve the text, subject to Questions 7 and 8

Question 7:
B. 6 months

Question 8:
B. twice in a year

Question 9:
A. I approve these functions, subject to Question 5

Question 10:
A. I approve this text

Question 11:
A. I approve this text

Question 12:
1. B
2. A
3. D
4. C
5. E

Question 13:
A. I approve all three voting forms

Question 14:
1. B
2. C
3. A
4. D

Question 15:
1. A
2. C
3. B

Question 16:
B. 67% of the vote

Question 17:
A. I approve this function of the committee

Question 18:
A. I approve the text of this paragraph

Question 19:
A. I agree that all of those actions should require a binding vote

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Thu 07 Jul , 2005 12:53 am
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Hobby -

I don't know what a "resolution of the Membership" is.

Something passed by the membership which has the force of a charter item but doesn’t belong in the charter because of its nature. We’ve passed one Resolution of the Membership so far, the Goals for 2005, shown at the end of the charter Bottom of this Post

twice in one year, twice in two years

Hobby, I’m sorry - I should have made that consistent. Mossy suggested the alternative, phrased as twice in two years, which is once a year. When I put it in the question I made it once a year, but forgot to correct it in the text. I’ll change it now.

Jn

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MaidenOfTheShieldarm
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Posted: Thu 07 Jul , 2005 4:38 am
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Question 1:
A. I approve the text of the opening paragraphs

Question 2:
A. I approve the composition of these committees
B.

Question 3:
A. I approve the composition of these committees

Question 4:
A. I approve the text of the closing paragraphs of ¶1

Question 5:
A. I agree with the provisions of this paragraph

Question 6:
A. I approve the text, subject to Questions 7 and 8

Question 7:
B. 6 months

Question 8:
B. twice in a year

Question 9:
A. I approve these functions, subject to Question 5

Question 10:
A. I approve this text

Question 11:
A. I approve this text

Question 12:
1. C.
2. E.
3. D.
4. B.
5. A.

Question 13:
A. I approve all three voting forms

Question 14:
1. B.
2. C.
3. D.
4. A.

Question 15:
1. B.
2. A.
3. C.

Question 16:
B. 67% of the vote

Question 17:
A. I approve this function of the committee

Question 18:
A. I approve the text of this paragraph

Question 19: approve that the following require a binding vote
A. I agree that all of those actions should require a binding vote

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Faramond
Post subject: Re: Article 7: Binding Votes and Initiatives: NOW VOTING
Posted: Thu 07 Jul , 2005 6:25 am
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Q1: A

Q2: A

Q3: A

Q4: A

Q5: A

Q6: A

Q7: A

Q8: B (What is a year in this question? A calender year, or a rolling period of 365.25 days?)

Q9: A

Q10: A

Q11: A

Q12:

A
B
D
C
E

Q13: A

Q14:

B
C
D
A

Q15:

A
B
C

Q16: B

Q17: A

Q18: A

Q19: A

But I do not even approve of item 4 even being allowable with a binding vote. In other words I object to the implicit endorsement of using votes to delete threads that this passage gives.

4. In the deletion of threads, any departure from the policy stated in Article 8.

Last edited by Faramond on Thu 07 Jul , 2005 6:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Eruname
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Posted: Thu 07 Jul , 2005 6:41 am
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Question 1: A. I approve the text of the opening paragraphs

Question 2:
A. I approve the composition of these committees

Question 3:
A. I approve the composition of these committees

Question 4:
A. I approve the text of the closing paragraphs of ¶1

Question 5:
A. I agree with the provisions of this paragraph

Question 6:
A. I approve the text, subject to Questions 7 and 8

Question 7:
B. 6 months

Question 8:
B. twice in a year

Question 9:
A. I approve these functions, subject to Question 5

Question 10:
A. I approve this text

Question 11:
A. I approve this text

Question 12:
1.A
2.B
3.D
4.C
5.E

Question 13:
A. I approve all three voting forms

Question 14:
1.D
2.A
3.B
4.D

Question 15:
1.C
2.A
3.B

Question 16:
A. 51% of the vote

Question 17:
A. I approve this function of the committee

Question 18:
A. I approve the text of this paragraph

Question 19:
B. I wish to except #1

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abandon yourself.
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Jnyusa
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Posted: Thu 07 Jul , 2005 8:39 am
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Faramond -

I was thinking of twelve months following the first vote, so that if you voted the first time in Feb and again in may, you could not vote again until the following feb. But if you voted in Feb and again in Nov, you could vote again in Feb. But if you voted in FEb and again in Dec, you would have to wait until March to vote a third time.

Mossy, how were you thinking about it?

Should we clarify this?

Jn

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Epigraph on the tombstone of W.C. Fields.


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Jnyusa
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Posted: Thu 07 Jul , 2005 12:20 pm
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VOTING IS CLOSED.

Here are my unconfirmed results. Faramond will also count. I will not be able to post charter text until after lunch (dinner in Europe). Also, so many questions were asked/raised during the voting process that I would like to put some of the items from all four ballots in a new thread for a quick clafying discussion when I return. Jn

Ballot 40

Question 1
A =11
B =0

Question 2
A =11
B= 0

Question 3
A =11
B=0

Question 4
A =11
B=0

Question 5
A= 11
B=0

Question 6
A =11
B=0

Question 7
A=1
B=10

Question 8
A=0
B=11

Question 9
A=11
B=0

Question 10
A=11
B=0

Question 11
A=11
B=0

Question 12
a=4
b=7
c=0
d=0
e=0

Question 13
A=10
B=1

Question 14
a=0
b=8
c=0
d=3

Question 15
a=6
b=5
c=0

Question 16
A=6
B=5

Question 17
A=11
B=0

Question 18
A=11
B=0

Question 19
A=9
B=2

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truehobbit
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Posted: Thu 07 Jul , 2005 5:50 pm
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Quote:
Hobby, I’m sorry - I should have made that consistent. Mossy suggested the alternative, phrased as twice in two years, which is once a year. When I put it in the question I made it once a year, but forgot to correct it in the text. I’ll change it now.
But the point is that this is not the same!

If we can vote on one thing twice in two years, that means if we vote now and in six months, we can't vote again for the next 18 months.

If we can only vote once a year, that means if we vote now, we can't vote again for the next 12 months, no matter what the result of question 7 says.
It makes question 7 redundant!

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We listen to one another, make good-faith efforts to understand one another, and we treat one another respectfully at all times.


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Faramond
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Posted: Thu 07 Jul , 2005 6:51 pm
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I have the following counts different, Jn.

Q7:

B=9
A=2


Q14:

B=8
D=2
misvote=1

(Eru accidentally voted for D as first and last option)


Q19:

A=10
B=1


For the rest I confirm your results, Jn.


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