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VOTING CLOSED! Article 9 - Forum Readability

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Do you agree with the article in the first post?
Yes
  
100% [ 10 ]
No
  
0% [ 0 ]
Total votes: 10
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truehobbit
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Posted: Fri 01 Jul , 2005 8:32 pm
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Yep, same here.

(*is relieved it's apparently not her e-mail provider*) ;)

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Fri 01 Jul , 2005 8:49 pm
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I'm sorry that the email apparently did not go through, but even so, the committee members that haven't voted should be checking to see what is happening here. I don't see any reason to extend this vote, since we clearly have a majority. And I am also going to end the other vote, even though only 10 voted there as well.


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Faramond
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Posted: Fri 01 Jul , 2005 8:51 pm
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It appears we are down to ten voting memebers.


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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Fri 01 Jul , 2005 9:01 pm
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We'll at least be back to 11 when Prim gets back.

And Alandriel is usually very responsible, but I know she has been having internet problems. She has not been active since June 28. I'm pretty sure that once she gets her internet problems resolved she'll be back.

Din has posted 9 messages elsewhere today, and Leoba has posted 7 today. It seems clear that the convention is not a high priority for them.

Ethel has not posted anywhere on board77 since June 26.


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Jnyusa
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Posted: Fri 01 Jul , 2005 9:50 pm
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Voronwe -

I believe this ballot text can go into the charter as is. I will move it to the actual document a bit later tonight, and also put up draft ballots for those other items.

I got sidetracked this afternoon.

Jn

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truehobbit
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Posted: Fri 01 Jul , 2005 10:11 pm
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Should I say the poll is over then?
It's not been 72 hours yet, I think.

Edit: just seen the Mayor poll is closed and that this time it was only 48 hours, so I'll declare this closed, too - thanks! :)

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Eruname
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Posted: Sat 02 Jul , 2005 1:31 am
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No email went out about this poll did it? All I can remember is an email about the Mayor's vote. I'd say notification of votes is pretty important as some members like Leoba don't have massive amounts of online time.

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Sat 02 Jul , 2005 2:00 am
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I did receive one email about two votes taking place.

When we were working on Article 3 I sent out an email with links when the draft ballot went up and another email when the vote opened. For the first committee I sent email ballots to people who were going to be out of town or otherwise offline and they really used them. But you know what, Eru, except in a couple unusual cases where we knew the person was offline and they did vote as soon as they returned or asked for and used an absentee ballot, people who did not vote in the first 24 hours did not vote at all.

That's why I switched to the 24 hours votes. I don't think it's quite fair to those of us who have to pay attention every day - because we're trying to manage the threads to pull a ballot out of all the ideas, and putting up the votes and counting them and drafting the resulting text and posting that - I don't think it's quite fair to us to make us stand around waiting for people to vote.

I told Voronwe that as of the second committee rotation we had killed almost 30 days waiting for people to vote who never voted. Then everyone wants to know why the charter takes so long. :scratch

Jn

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*Alandriel*
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Posted: Sat 02 Jul , 2005 8:48 am
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Sorry folks - my computer melted for good and had to go into the shop. I did get one email from Voronwe and did reply to it that I was 'out of action' from an internet cafe. System's back online though now, it's only me who's got to play catchup of an entire week :Q

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truehobbit
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Posted: Sat 02 Jul , 2005 11:11 am
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Quote:
I'd say notification of votes is pretty important as some members like Leoba don't have massive amounts of online time.
But as Voronwe pointed out, Leoba and Din had enough time to make a good number of other posts around here. I'm not saying they aren't allowed to have other priorities, but I also think it can't be expected, under these circumstances, that we wait for their votes.

Alandriel - good to have you back :hug:

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Anthriel
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Posted: Sat 02 Jul , 2005 12:11 pm
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Alandriel... I was afraid that was what was going on with you! Rotten computers...

I am glad to see you!

:Wooper:


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Eruname
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Posted: Sat 02 Jul , 2005 9:57 pm
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truehobbit wrote:
But as Voronwe pointed out, Leoba and Din had enough time to make a good number of other posts around here.
I can make 5-10 chatty posts pretty quickly. These threads in here are entirely different when it comes to time committment.
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I also think it can't be expected, under these circumstances, that we wait for their votes.
That's fair enough to me.

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Dindraug
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Posted: Mon 04 Jul , 2005 7:22 am
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truehobbit wrote:
Quote:
I'd say notification of votes is pretty important as some members like Leoba don't have massive amounts of online time.
But as Voronwe pointed out, Leoba and Din had enough time to make a good number of other posts around here. I'm not saying they aren't allowed to have other priorities, but I also think it can't be expected, under these circumstances, that we wait for their votes.

Alandriel - good to have you back :hug:
The problem is not the amount of time needed to make posts (and if you read some of mine you would realise they were response posts not well read posts ;) ). The problem is the amount of time it takes to catch up and read the thread, to ponder the isues and to make the judgement calls.

I do not have a lot of online time at the moment. On a good day I have fourty minutes, on a bad ten. I am sure you can work out the maths, and understand that to read up (through the endless banter :roll: ) the point of a thread or post takes more than that, which is an issue for me.

I also need to point out, which I am sure you would be able to do from monitoring the posting habits Veronwe if you needed to, that I am not on line at the weekends at the moment. Running a poll over the weekend, for me at least, does not work. I will miss it, end of story.

More so is, and yes I am whinging here, not being told when a vote comes us. And I know the way this has been run, and I know that in a vote such as this one where ten to zero is not going to be changed by my say, but I am just a little spooked by the attitude shown over this.

Jny, I know this has been hard for you, and I know you have to put in enormous effort on this and keep monitering it, and I have enormous respect for you on doing so. Just so you know. But you also need to know that other people simply cannot spend the time doing so.

I am going to drop out of the committee then, I see no real point in continuing in this way. Sorry folks, :(

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Leoba
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Posted: Mon 04 Jul , 2005 8:11 am
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Voronwë, I did tell you back on June 16th that I really didn't have time for more than the occasional post in here and I recall you saying you'd be content with my occasional posts and votes when I can. ;) Accordingly, I cannot understand why you should be hanging round waiting.

At a very exposed desk it's one thing to dash in and make a quick coffee-break post or even to formulate an offline post to copy and paste, quite another to catch up on several intense pages of discussion. Besides which, of course I have other priorities! Which is why I said I would walk away last time the committee was re-jigged, if you remember. ;)

Have fun stalking the rest of my posts. :P

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Mon 04 Jul , 2005 4:15 pm
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Din and Leoba,

I appreciate very much the contribution you have been able to make to the Charter from the beginning, especially your determination to stick it out even as RL was making that more difficult. It has been important to me to have on the committee strong voices representing the original impetus of b77. It may not appear so to those who would have preferred no changes at all, but I believe deeply that any community which tries to change by forgetting its past is doomed to failure.

The part of this experience that has been new for me is the length of time the process has taken while people were clamoring for a result. Communication over such a lengthy period of time using media that are not read every day while people's RL circumstances change is not something I've had to deal with before - nor answering to a very large group that is affected by the outcome but not interested in being part of the process. Usually I am dealing with people who are representatives of various organizations, whereas we volunteers really only represent ourselves. We have not been elected or appointed by those who are waiting for us to finish.

I think that I have not really managed this aspect of our task successfully. I've tried to put in place several different mechanisms by which members can see quickly what is happening and cast votes by absentee ballot if necessary, but you are quite correct, and it should be closer to the front of my mind all the time, that what takes time is reading and thinking, not casting a vote.

Nevertheless, I believe that the Charter itself is a successful one, and I applaud every single member of the committee who has put work into this.

Most members may not be fully aware of this because the agenda tends to drop down the page, but the next small chunk of articles (three threads, the last of of which I'll put up today) is the very last thing we have to do. We are indeed very close to being completely finished and I expect the committee to be casting its last votes within the next ten days.

Din and Leoba, if you manage to find time to read those issues and want to cast a vote, I would hate to exclude either of you from doing so. I have lost a great deal of my own enthusiasm as the level of hidden resentment against myself and Voronwe has surfaced in Farawen's thread, but I am determined that no one is going to deprive me of the reward of being happy on our Grand Opening - a reward which every one of us richly deserves. I would hate to deprive the two of you of the great satisfaction of casting the final votes of the committee after sticking with this so long. So perhaps your permissions can at least remain open until the end.

Jn

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Mon 04 Jul , 2005 4:29 pm
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I don't have much to add to Jn's post other then that I agree with what she says, and I apologize for my failings in attempting to help lead this discussion. I knew that I was not the right person to do so, and I said so from the start. The only reason that I did so is that no one else was willing to do so.

Leoba, I'm sorry that I talked you into staying. I can only plead that I really wanted to have your continued input.

I also am sorry that my email announcing that the two votes were commencing last week apparently was not successfully sent. I did not realize that until the vote was almost completed.

I value the contributions both of you have made here, and I value both of you as individuals. I feel very bad that you feel abused by my efforts to move this process forward. But then, the last few days I have felt increasingly like I want to find a hole and keep digging. :(


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Impenitent
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Posted: Tue 05 Jul , 2005 12:55 am
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Jn and Vinnie - you may well be right that there is some hidden resentment; but there is also much silent support and appreciation. It is natural that you will feel let down by recent events but try, if you can, to keep in mind that you have both earned the respect of many. Many, many!

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Tue 05 Jul , 2005 1:08 am
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Thanks, Imp. :hug:

Jn

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Eruname
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Posted: Tue 05 Jul , 2005 1:09 am
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What Imp said.

:hug:

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truehobbit
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Posted: Tue 05 Jul , 2005 7:33 pm
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I don't know what feet of clay are, but I don't think there's all that hidden resentment building up behind the scenes ;) - remember that you can't please everybody, and that you've in fact managed to please a great lot of people! :D

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