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Revisit Forums Used by the Mayor: VOTING CLOSED

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Jnyusa
Post subject: Revisit Forums Used by the Mayor: VOTING CLOSED
Posted: Fri 01 Jul , 2005 4:19 am
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APPROVED TEXT

The text has been amended to the following for Article 4: Office of the Mayor (only the amended clauses are shown; other clauses remain unchanged)

¶1: Term of Office, Eligibility, and Selection

No provision is made for selecting an Assistant to the Mayor, however if a current Mayor decides that an Assistant Mayor is needed to fulfill the duties of this office, he/she may propose that the Charter be amended to provide for a selection process and the standing Committee for Charter Amendments will convene according to Article 7.
<>
The Mayor may not serve as a Ranger, Juror, Loremaster, or Mediator during his/her term of office.

¶3: Screen name, Forums, and Permissions used by the Mayor

A new subforum is created and entitled “Michel Delving” in which the Mayor will maintain those records that the Charter designates as public. The subforum will be a read and write forum so that members are able to discuss with the Mayor as needed and make the Mayor aware of developments that affect the Board.

A second subforum which is not readable by the members is created and entitled "Sensitive Information - Mayor" in order to maintain those records that the Charter designates as private. The Mayor will not have any Administrative powers other than permission to read and write in the Outside Forum so that Jury Pool and Mediator records can be maintained, and access to the hidden subforum entitled "Sensitive Information - Mayor" during his/her term of office.

The text has been amended to the following for Article 5: Dispute Resolution
(only the amended clauses are shown; other clauses remain unchanged)

¶2: Eligibility of Members to Serve as Jurors


The list of those members who have also agreed to serve as Mediators will be posted prominently in the Bike Racks. Full names will be used so that PMs can be sent with ease. Dates of entry do not have to be posted but the date a member last served as Mediator will be shown.

¶6: Procedure for Hearings to Remove a Ranger

Any Hearing to remove a Ranger will have a Loremaster in attendance.

Last edited by Jnyusa on Fri 08 Jul , 2005 3:59 am, edited 10 times in total.

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Fri 01 Jul , 2005 4:28 am
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In the process of setting up Michel Delving and actually trying to use the interface between Rangers and Mayor, it came to our attention that something in the Charter is simply not going to work.

The Mayor keeps the record of outstanding penalties against members and outstanding warnings and complaints against Rangers. We wanted these records to be private. It seemed unnecessarily complicated to create another hidden forum for the Mayor to use, a forum that would only have one thread in it, and that one thread would only have two posts, LOL. So we wrote into the Charter (Article 4, ¶3) that the Mayor would maintain a thread in the Sensitive Info forum.

However, it turns out that it is vastly more complicated to give a non-Ranger access to the Sensitive Info forum than it is to create a new forum. And, when it comes right down to it, the Rangers have a weak feeling about giving access to sensitive info to one person for an entire year.

So we are thinking that we should create another Mayor's forum, which would be hidden and used solely for the purpose of recording outstanding penalties and complaints. The Rangers would be able to see it, of course, but the Mayor would not then be able to see the Sensitive Info forum. My druthers would be to call it The Basement of Michel Delving.

I would like to take comments on this - creating the forum and naming it - and put it to a vote as soon as possible so that we can get the rest of Article 4 up for ratification with its new paragraphs and amendments.

Jn

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Impenitent
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Posted: Fri 01 Jul , 2005 4:35 am
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I think it makes sense and we should do it.

But that brings up another issue: I really think that registered members should all be able to see (not read, but see) all the fora on the board, including the Sensitive Info forum.

There's something reassuring about things not being hidden away. Even if the only clue is "Sensitive Info - passwords and private member info accessible only to Rangers," or "The Basement in Michel Delving" and seeing that each of those fora have only 3 threads or some such.

That's another issue, of course, but Jn's post put me in mind of this.


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IdylleSeethes
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Posted: Fri 01 Jul , 2005 4:40 am
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I have no real opinion. I think it is odd the Rangers don't trust the Mayor and think we need to be protected. There is a message somewhere in there.

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Faramond
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Posted: Fri 01 Jul , 2005 4:40 am
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Do Delvings have basements?


I don't have a problem with forum names being hidden away. There's no subterfuge here. I think it's a little off-putting to have forum names visible if a user can't read anything in it, to be honest. But no big deal either way, really.


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Jnyusa
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Posted: Fri 01 Jul , 2005 4:48 am
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I think it is odd the Rangers don't trust the Mayor and think we need to be protected.

:devil:

I can't speak for the Rangers, but I think it is more the length of time involved than it is the person involved. The Rangers only have access for three months at a time, so there's not so much chance to ... I don't know ... build up resentment towards a troublesome member, let's say. Whereas the Mayor has to eat this stuff for a whole year. It's probably better if the Mayor just walks in at the end and collects the file for storage, you know, instead of having to watch every problem as it evolves.

Jn

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Fri 01 Jul , 2005 5:04 pm
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In going through the consistency thread I found other small amendments that must be made to this Article, and I'd like to keep them all in one thread for simplicity. They can all go on the same ballot.

(1) ¶1 Under Mayor's right to request a deputy:
"and the membership will convene for an amendment according to the by-laws" should now read "and the Standing Committee for Charter Amendments will convene according to Article 7."

(2) ¶3 "• A subforum of the Outside Forum is created" should now read "a new subforum is created"

(3)¶3 "The Mayor will not have any Administrative powers other than permission to read and write in the Outside Forum and the private Management subforum during his/her term of office" should now read "The Mayor will not have any Administrative powers other than permission to read and write in the Outside Forum and Michel Delving" and this vote will alter the access to Sensitive Info and possibly create a second new forum

(4)¶2 under Record Keeping, the Mayor must show:
• Date of last service as a Mediator

But in Article 5, ¶2 it says:
• The list of those members who have also agreed to serve as Mediators will be posted prominently in the Bike Racks. Full names will be used so that PMs can be sent with ease. Dates of entry and served dates do not have to be posted for Mediators.

Should we show dates of last service for Mediators or not? Entry dates and service dates seems counterproductive to me because all members in a thread must agree on a mediator so there's no chance that mediators will be serving in particular order.

Jn

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Eruname
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Posted: Sat 02 Jul , 2005 3:01 am
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Quote:
It's probably better if the Mayor just walks in at the end and collects the file for storage, you know, instead of having to watch every problem as it evolves.
I created the Sensitive Information Forum. It's only supposed to be for things like passwords to all the email accounts, the admin ID, and the storage of PM votes. No discussion should be going on in that forum. So, I don't see why the Mayor couldn't keep the thread in that forum.

I like non-readable forums staying hidden. I really dislike seeing something that I can't get into. I'd rather be somewhat oblivious to its presence.
Quote:
Should we show dates of last service for Mediators or not? Entry dates and service dates seems counterproductive to me because all members in a thread must agree on a mediator so there's no chance that mediators will be serving in particular order.
If the date entered has no bearing on when they could serve, then no, we shouldn't keep track of the dates. I kind of like the idea of knowing who's served when though.

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Anthriel
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Posted: Sat 02 Jul , 2005 3:16 am
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No problem here with the Mayor having his/her own forum. What are the possible downsides?


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Jnyusa
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Posted: Sat 02 Jul , 2005 3:36 am
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Eru: I created the Sensitive Information Forum. It's only supposed to be for things like passwords to all the email accounts, the admin ID, and the storage of PM votes.

Eru, perhaps Voronwe and laureanna will speak to why they were uncomfortable about the Mayor using this forum when it came time to actually created Mayor threads there.

Re Mediator dates: maybe we could just record when a mediator serves, and not bother with entry dates.

Anth: What are the possible downsides?

The downside of the Mayor having another forum is that we create a forum with very little in it. The downside of using the existing forum is that all the permissions on the board would have to be changed and the designation of groups would have to be done over again. My understanding is that this is a terrible job.

Jn

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Anthriel
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Posted: Sat 02 Jul , 2005 3:40 am
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Quote:
The downside of the Mayor having another forum is that we create a forum with very little in it.

An invisible forum with little in it would not be a problem for me. :D


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Jnyusa
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Posted: Sat 02 Jul , 2005 3:59 am
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:D

Responding to Faramond's earlier comment, Delvings probably have root cellars, or we could call it the sub-basement of Michel Delving, or the back room or the broom closet. :)

Jn

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Sat 02 Jul , 2005 4:33 am
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I have thought all along that it would be better for the Mayor to have her own sensitive forum rather then give him access to the Ranger's sensitive forum. All things being equal, my preference is to keep the Rangers and the Mayor separate.


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MaidenOfTheShieldarm
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Posted: Sat 02 Jul , 2005 4:37 am
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It seems like it would make more sense to give the Mayor her own forum. If it's only visible to the Mayor and possibly Rangers, it wouldn't be cluttering up anything, and sounds like it would save the Rangers a lot of hassle. Plus, I would prefer to keep the Mayor and Rangers seperate.

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Eruname
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Posted: Sat 02 Jul , 2005 4:55 am
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It wouldn't totally keep the Mayor and Rangers separate as Rangers can see and post in everything. What's more correct is to say it would keep the Mayor out of Ranger business.

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Sat 02 Jul , 2005 7:48 am
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I've posted a draft ballot for review.

Seriously now, we need suggestions for the title of the hidden forum if you feel that Delvings should not have basements, or just don't like the connotations of that term.

Jn

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truehobbit
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Posted: Sat 02 Jul , 2005 11:50 am
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Quote:
The downside of using the existing forum is that all the permissions on the board would have to be changed and the designation of groups would have to be done over again. My understanding is that this is a terrible job.
It's not a terrible job - it's just a few switches.
But, IMO, a few very awkward switches!

What would have to be done is this:

Sensitive info is set to "admin". This means that there isn't even an option to change indiviual permissions for it, either for members or for usergroups.

So, before anything can be done, sensitive info would have to be set to "private".

Now, I don't know what the default settings for private are - maybe it's all to "off" and it would be no problem at all.
But if it's "on", that would mean that for the minute or so, between switching the forum to "private" and the all members group permission to "off", the forum would be accessible to all members!
Call me paranoid, but I think that means we should change the passwords after that.

It's nothing we couldn't do if people wanted it - we could check in the experiment forum what happens in such a case, would only take five or ten minutes, I'm sure.

So, for me, the most convincing reason to have such a forum, is to keep the Mayor out of Ranger business.
With an office that lasts for a whole year, I should want to restrict the range of its powers to what is necessary for the exercise of the duties of the job.

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Anthriel
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Posted: Sat 02 Jul , 2005 12:06 pm
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How about "The Precious"?

<snerk>



Maybe the Mayor's Annals? (Sorry, I'm getting giddy here...)

Mayor's Cache?

Mayor's Stash? (Sounds kinda druggy, there)

Mayor's Reserve?


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Faramond
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Posted: Sat 02 Jul , 2005 6:13 pm
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How about the Mayor's Slushfund? ;)

I also like Stash.

I honestly don't care. Basement is fine.


And the ballot looks full and proper.


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Jnyusa
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Posted: Sat 02 Jul , 2005 6:46 pm
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The forum is for penalties and complaints so I'd like a name that isn't too intriguing. ;)

Jn

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