board77

Eruname wrote:

I was wondering about you today. Especially when I came across a comment from you where you told wilko he was a b77er whether he liked it or not.

I was wrong when I said that.

Fara,I don't think there's anything you can do to make Alys (for example) feel completely welcome here short of rewriting history.

You can do something else though- be as welcoming as you can be.

This place will never be perfect. I think that along with pointing out important things you're also making a mistake worrying about things that can't be changed, like the rain being wet. You really can't do much about that except hold out an umbrella, and do all you can to console the person who is very afraid of getting wet, until they can handle a couple of drops.

Oh, fucking metaphors. Fara, I just really don't get it. It's like suddenly it's a surprise that b77 has a lot of crap behind it and that there was a mess on TORC...that's not a fault that someone forgot or didn't want to correct, that's just life. We can only work with what we have now. To do that you have to stop wishing things turned out different and just work on them. Again I say, you brought people's attention to a lot of important problems but they can't be changed with a wave of a hand.

Stay here and be welcoming and support the behaviour you think is fair and criticise that which you think is wrong. Try to influence people with your example. It's the only way you can make this place good. There is nothing else you or anyone else can do.

I think b77 has good foundations and is at a stage of building right now that welcomes kindness and wants people to be fair and listen to each other. When I read what you write I get a feeling you think this place is hostile and tries to push its shortcomings under the rug. It makes me want to scream, because I have no clue how to convince you otherwise. I don't know, Fara. Maybe you're too wary of being hurt again, maybe you're expecting too much, I don't know. You're not comfortable here and I don't like that because I want you here, and I can't see what is making you so uncomfortable, let alone how to fix it.

Rodia wrote:

It makes me want to scream, because I have no clue how to convince you otherwise.

Ditto. I've felt that way when discussing b77 with a few folks.

Well, Fara probably feels the same not being able to convince us. I dunno. I really do want to see the problem but I just don't.

I know what people have a problem with, I just don't see it the way they do. My perception is different.

When I was growing up, one of my best friends was dating my other best friend. I started dating a girl who also started dating the male part of that couple.

For some reason, even though a lot of people liked each other in that little group, we were never all friends.

I learned you can't make people that you like like each other then. Even when it would be really, really cool if they did.

The only thing you can do is decide whether you like them all enough to stay close to them in spite of the fact they may not like each other.

Farawen,

It's a bit like citizenship, isn't it? I've lived in America for over 40 years and yet I still cling to my British citizenship.

You are no longer a member of b77 because you say you are not. So, no, you are not a b77'er. (Or a Borker )

I must be a bit dense,a lot dense probably, because despite reading every single post you have written in this thread, I still don't understand why you feel so at odds with us. I understand that you do. I just don't comprehend the reasons. And so you renounce what this board has become, is becomming, and will leave. No one can prevent you although many wish you would change your mind. I am among the many.

I regret that I will now never have the opportunity to get to know you better and perhaps develope a friendship. It is my loss.

I wish you well, Farawen.

*throws pencil*

Ro:

Fara, how on earth is it a problem with the current board that someone like Alys doesn't feel welcome here? The forum was formed around a series of unfortunate, painful events, but you seem to think there should be no lasting wounds at all because of it. We can't undo history, but as a community there is a definite effort being made to move on and be as welcoming and forward-looking as possible. I just don't get where your perception of exclusivity is coming from, or how many people you feel are perpetuating it.

You say someone is either in the culture or they're not - but who exactly is stopping anyone, who hasn't yet made an effort to join the culture, from doing so? Obviously noone has a chance of being part of the culture if they're not even here!

Unless you are complaining about human nature itself which inevitably leads to the formation of groups of like-minded people!

I don't feel welcome on Torc much anymore, but hey I still post from time to time and lurk. I know full well what has been said about me in the MOD form....hell I probably deserved a great deal of it there. That does not stop me from lurking and posting from time to time with my friends there.

I post here now because I feel that I can be more open without censorship.

I must be one of those crazy Americans who thinks freedom of speech is the most important part of human dignity. I truly believe someone should have the right to say they 'might be ugly, they might be poor, but by god their here', and once that right is not there then how do they have any voice at all, how do they say I am important, I matter, even if it only matters to me, its still important.

So Farawen if you don't feel welcome and are upset with Alys not being able to post here without harsh judgement, have a good time elsewhere.

And the quote is from the Color Purple and is I might be black, I might be poor, I might even be ugly, but I'm here.....I'm here

Quote:

What I'm not entirely comfortable with, and I apologize if this sounds harsh, is that when I say I don't feel like a member of this community anymore, people reply with a variant of "Oh, but you are, and there's really nothing you can do about it." That I get emails and messages telling me basically that I suck for abandoning you guys. Or that I get subtle (or not so subtle) hints concerning the fact that the only person that can silence me on here is myself. Of course I silence myself in a community when I decide to leave said community because I don't want to be part of it anymore, and of course my voice then won't be heard in future debates concerning it. I'm perfectly aware of that. But isn't this kind of the point? Isn't it my choice to lend my voice to whatever I feel it worth lending to?

It is indeed your choice.

I won't muddle the waters anymore by wistfully noting that I wish you felt comfortable here. (Which is all I have done; I think the last thing I PM'd you on is that I saw a cat that reminded me of yours. )

I certainly don't want you to feel badly for choosing to do what you feel is right. I can't help the niggling little feeling that I would have liked to have understood your POV better, and would like to have tried to right the wrongs you see here, if I could have. But in no way will I try to coerce you to type one more word here if that is not what makes you comfortable.

Godspeed, Farawen.

Iavas_Saar wrote:

Fara, how on earth is it a problem with the current board that someone like Alys doesn't feel welcome here?

Agree with you fully Iavas.

The problem is not that there is a problem with somebody not being welcomed here, the problem is that people have an issue with that and keep on making it a problem.

We as a community are not perfect, we never claimed to be. We are more a collective of people from an old mesageboard who have been washed ashore in a new mesage board. We are making a new community, new rules, new ideologies.

The problem with Board77, if there is one, is that people are unwilling to face up to or acknowlage what happened.

Farawen, you were a founder here, you drive discussion. I know you feel that this place is not what you hoped. I do understand that fully. But it is just this place, and it will always be this place. I just hope you can come back and see us all, and not loose touch. I have enormous respect for you though, and what ever you decide, you will always have that

I read the first half dozen pages of this thread and couldn't take it anymore.
I read the last two pages of this thread and can't take it anymore.
I take 5 or 6 weeks off to recover from some burnout and enjoy the summer. I come back to find Farawen has returned only to then discover that she is gone again.
I really really can't take it anymore.
I discovered during my absence that I have neither the time or energy to get involved with any type of debate or drama.
I also discovered that I need to spend much less time online.
I will be a bit more of a frequent poster than I have been in the last month or so, but I intend to stick to spamming and nothing more.
There are a million things I could add to this discussion and a million things I tried to bring to people's attention in the past.
It was futile then and it is futile now. It would serve nothing but to widen the divide. I have to admit that I feel a bit like Din. Well Din with hair anyway. Well some hair.
On that note, if you see me posting in anything but light hearted threads, kindly whack me in the head with a two by four.

All those crazy nights when I cried myself to sleep
Now melodrama never makes me weep anymore
'cause I haven't got time for the pain
I haven't got room for the pain
I haven't the need for the pain

I think I'll go and lay some groundwork for a Beach Party Spam thread for next month. Off to the beach to take some pics of babez in bikinis.

Holby, I'm pleased to see you here in any rate.

Boy, you GOTTA know I agree with that, VMan.

Me too. Even if he doesn’t like donuts.

And, for what it’s worth, my feelings recently have been much like that of teh holbster. I’ve been staying out of the high drama discussions as much as possible. It’s not that I don’t care - I do. But I really can’t take it anymore.

I came here because I missed my friends. I stayed because the people here are my friends. That’s all that really matters to me.

It would be really cool if this thread ended on page 42.

What's the problem with B77?
Well, it takes 42 pages to figure it out!

edit:
You know, 42 being the Answer to Life, The Universe & Everything.

life goes on

I'll probably screw the whole 42 thing up with my post but I wanted to respond to something tinwe said:

Quote:

I’ve been staying out of the high drama discussions as much as possible. It’s not that I don’t care - I do. But I really can’t take it anymore.

This board has a lot more "drama" or issues than TORC did and a lot of us aren't used to it or are tired of dealing with it. I don't think it's because people can't get along here or there's something wrong here, I think it's because of the way we have this board set up. We don't have some PTB that comes in and tell us to shut up and take it to email. We ourselves are responsible for getting things accomplished or working things out. Arguments are allowed to continue, but things get resolved.

So yes, there's drama and strife, but we're making ourselves stronger after each episode because hopefully we come to an understanding or at least part amicably instead of emotions festering.

And at the risk of screwing up the answer to life, the universe, and everything, I will VERY LOUDLY AGREE WITH ERU!!!!! She's absolutely right.

Eru, I totally agree with you.

I know it often does not happen, but this time, that was exactly what I wanted to say.