board77

I don't see any reason why we can't start discussing the name of the charter. Jn, if you think we need to wait, just ask a friendly Ranger to lock or delete this thread.

As far as I recall, there have been four suggested names:

Constitution
Charter
The Red Book
The Dirt and Wires

Constitution was the term that I used when I first suggested this exercise, five months ago (little did I know what I was getting us into). However, over time, we more and more tended to refer to it as the Charter, largerly due to Jn's influence, I would say.

I have to say, I don't recall now the context in which The Red Book was suggested as a name for the document, or even who suggested it. I want to say that I suggested it, but that may not be true. Not that it matters much, but if anyone has a stronger recollection, I'd be curious to know what it was.

I do know that it was I who suggested The Dirt and Wires of board77, though I credit Prim with the inspiration. I personally like that choice because it is a reminder that it is the people of the community that are important, and that these rules are there to serve the people, not the other way around. Another factor (which could be considered either a positive or negative factor, depending on your point of view) is the fact that it is an illusion to where we came from, and the different point of view about the vinyard that was expressed there.

The first thing we need to determine is whether there are any other suggested names that people want to discuss. Then we can discuss the merits of all of the suggested names. Finally, we can vote on which one to choose, as well as whether to include "of board77" in the name.

Thanks for getting this up, Voronwe!

I'm going to postpone expressing my opinion here, though, because I see that I have fallen behind in just about everything else I'm supposed to be posting about on this board. Will try to get back to this thread later today, but it might be tomorrow.

Jn

I've got used to Charter - I like it, and it's easy to type, too!

(And I should be catching up on the other stuff in here, too. )

Although I have to admit to being pleased that Voronwe liked my "dirt and wires" analogy so much , I don't think it's a good name for this document. The name should be something that doesn't need a footnote to explain it. . . .

I like Dirt and Wires, but I agree with Prim that the name shouldn't need a footnote attached.

Certain people seem to take issue with having "twee Tolkien names" which The Red Book is, despite it's being derived from the Red Book of Hergest.

We've all gotten used to the Charter, which rather harkens back to the Magna Carta. So, I'd say stick with the Charter.

If we leave out twee and obscure, we are left with boring. I've heard the complaints, but I don't have a feel for how many are really against something a little quirky.

Personally, I like The Red Book. As Maiden said, it has other connections, and those are significant to me.

Charter is probably the best of the mundane possibilities.

bump

It's hard to get excited about this thread when there are so many controversial issues being discussed. It's rather sedate and boring in here.

Charter and The Red Book I like, Constitution and Dirt and Wires I really don't.

At this point, though, no matter what it's called I'll probably always think of it as the Charter.

I have no other suggestions for a name at this time.

Well, I guess I'm ready to weigh in on this thread.

First of all, Dirt & Wires is too obscure, and Constitution is too big a word for what we have here. We'd need a belt and suspenders with that one. So I agree with the rest of you that it's a choice between Red Book and Charter.

So ... I have a selfish and idiosyncractic reason for wanting to call it our Charter.

I have, shall we say, a professional interest in "Documents of Consent" - documents that lay out the terms by which a people, a community, an organization, etc. consent to be governed.

The concept is not new, but it is only catching on among nations and among the grass roots in the past 60-70 years, basically since the United States survived WWII and everyone saw that having a government which derives its just powers from the consent of the governed did not cause us to collapse into anarchy, obscurity, or non-existence.

(A fate, btw, which some have predicted for B77.)

Many such documents are now cropping up in the most surprising places, and they are being called Charters, for the most part. Sometimes they are called Declarations, but I notice that when rights documents are called Declarations they are usually written by one group on behalf of another and are not truly Documents of Consent, which can only be written on behalf of one own self.

We must be very rare, if not unique, among internet communities in having begun our public life with a Document of Consent. I would like the name to be recognizable, signal, to people who are interested in such things. And for that reason I would like to continue calling it our Charter.

But, as I said, this is a selfish and idiosyncratic reason. The whole point of such a document is that it belongs to us in a way that nothing imposed from outside possibly could. As such, we should name it whatever we please.

Jn

I'm tempted to say that we should just deem the name of the document to have been generally accepted as the "Charter" and skip voting on the issue altogether, either here or in the general membership.

If we do vote, I think its pretty clear that we should just vote between The Red Book and The Charter (and I suppose whether we should include "of board77" in the name). But I fear putting up such a small and inconsequental item for the interminable ratification and discussion process.

Actually, to be honest, I don't really care what we do at this point.

If we're going to keep calling it Our Charter, then I don't think we have to vote at all, in the same way that an organization does not have to vote whether to call its by-laws by-laws.

But if we want to customize our Charter, then I think we should give our members the opportunity to vote.

Jn

"Documents of Consent" is at least interesting. I've only heard it used in relation to Australian aboriginal issues. I wasn't aware it had general applicability.

I would entertain The Red Book, Documents of Consent, or Charter.

Document ... singular, since we've only written one ... so far.

While we're talking about the document itself, I've been meaning to ask Voronwe what it would take for us to put the charter in the public domain. I know how to obtain copyrights but I don't know how to obviate them.

Jn

Not my area of expertise, I'm afraid, Jn. The thing to do would be to ask Ellienor, if at all possible. I'm sure she would know the answer.

I think Document of Consent is much to obscure.

You get to make this ballot, Voronwe.

I'll ask Ellie. Thanks.

Jn

If we vote on this at all.

Does anyone object to just calling it our Charter and being done with it?

No objections here.

It is what we've all gotten used to calling it.

No objections either
_______________
Resident witchâ„¢

I just got back from vacation, and think it may take another two days just to read up on all the stuff that I have missed in my absence. Some of it is going to take some thought.

So, in true introvert style, I'm going to start with the easy one first.

I agree with Faramond that no matter what we name the document, I will always think of it as the Charter. It's just like the Ranger thing to me... whenever I see it, or use it, I almost have a mental "Ranger = Admin" step in my head.

Don't get me wrong, I think Ranger is fun, but it's not immediately obvious as to what it means; the extra translational step is necessary, to me, at least for a while.

I believe that calling our defining document "The Red Book" would involve the same step.

I say let's just call it the Charter.

Now, that having been said, I LIKE that not all of our board names follow a pattern.

You know how some people decorate the baby's room in Winnie-the-Pooh EVERYTHING? I always would walk into a room like that and immediately think... well.... how limiting that was. Cute idea, really, but ultimately tough to keep up... because one human being can only withstand so much Winnie-the-Pooh. If you get my drift.

I LIKE that some of our names are twee Tolkien, and some are cut-and-dry descriptive, and some are... in Latin, even. Yes. I like.

We are SO out of the box here.

And that is SUCH a good thing.

Welcome back, Anthy!

That's a good thing, too!