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PostPosted: Sat 21 Jan , 2006 6:44 pm 
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Voronwë, it isn't unreasonable to remind people of their rights. No one should feel obliged to be silent.

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PostPosted: Sat 21 Jan , 2006 6:46 pm 

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I'm sorry to disagree with you too, my dear friend Rodia, but most of time when people find something offensive or inappropriate they do not say anything about it (and why should they -- no one wants to be the next Cerin). A perfect example is that thread that I mentioned before. Not a single person said anything about it, even though I know that many felt that it was inappropriate. The same is true about sig pics and other things. But I'm not going to get drawn back into this. This will certainly be my last post on the subject.


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PostPosted: Sat 21 Jan , 2006 6:50 pm 
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Voronwë_the_Faithful wrote:
A perfect example is that thread that I mentioned before. Not a single person said anything about it, even though I know that many felt that it was inappropriate.


And whose fault is that?

Maybe I will sound harsh, but if people don't speak up, they shouldn't complain later that no one else spoke up. I thought that thread wasn't too great where it was, but I figured I didn't mind enough to ask for it to be moved. However I thought someone else would. No one did- but this doesn't mean I can say 'Yeah I thought it was inappropriate, it should have been moved.' since I never lifted a finger to get it moved.

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PostPosted: Sat 21 Jan , 2006 6:55 pm 
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...and I wasn't nearly as civil in expressing my disagreement...I'm sorry. Rest assured that whatever I say here isn't said in anger, and I don't think less of anyone just because they don't agree.

:hug:

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PostPosted: Sat 21 Jan , 2006 7:05 pm 
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V wrote:
What you are asking for is a basic change of attitude for this place and I just don't think that it is going to happen. Better to acknowledge that that attitude exists here and let people decide whether they fit in with it or not.


The attitude might not be great, but neither is the lack of faith. I wish that would return to this place. I truly wonder if that was ever there to begin with. My cynic says, no.

Prim is right. If you find something offensive, say something. Ro is right. If you clam up, you have no right to complain later about no one complaining. Is everyone going to take every sig change request with a "top o' the mornin' to ya" attitude? No, but that isn't an excuse for people to not say something. Then again, this is free speech for you. The right to complain or be racy.

There aren't that many people here with racy sigs, by the way.

Again, I ask.. how many posters do we have who are teachers? This I'm asking because I don't know the answer.

Edit:

V wrote:
Not a single person said anything about it, even though I know that many felt that it was inappropriate.


Maybe we should persuade these "many" to learn how to speak up. Like Prim said, no one should feel obliged to be silent. Who's fault is it if someone doesn't speak up? (Not rhetorical.)

The many reminds me of the unnamed White House aide. I always look at it with a skeptical eye. Mostly because I have my doubts that people are meeting in secret to discuss something like an offensive thread. Although, far be it for me to tell people how to spend their time.

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PostPosted: Wed 25 Jan , 2006 2:32 pm 
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Sooo... no one has answered my question yet...

Jude wrote:
And, correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that since phpbber can only deal with Alandriel as the admin of record, she donated her ID and changed it to *Alandriel*, and then re-registered as Alandriel. Therefore, all our dealings with phpbber regarding the backup must be done through the *Alandriel* ID, which is accessible to the Rangers. Is this correct?

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PostPosted: Wed 25 Jan , 2006 2:38 pm 
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From a procedural and legal perspective I believe your statement is true. Unless they actually used Alandriel's real name and information, the account and who controls it is B77's spokesperson to phpbber.

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PostPosted: Wed 25 Jan , 2006 6:52 pm 
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TED,
As for teachers, SF is a retired teacher. I don't know how many current teachers are on the board now.

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PostPosted: Wed 25 Jan , 2006 6:55 pm 
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Thanks, Ara. I was curious since we were discussing teachers.

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PostPosted: Wed 25 Jan , 2006 6:58 pm 
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Rebecca and Athrabeth are teachers. Jn is a college professor. Tolkienpurist will soon be an attorney; Ellienor and Voronwë already are. I'm sure there are others I've forgotten or don't know about, as well as other people in professions with codes of conduct.

But that's not the only problem. Do you really want to restrict new members in those professions from joining?

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PostPosted: Wed 25 Jan , 2006 7:09 pm 
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Nin is also a teacher.

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PostPosted: Wed 25 Jan , 2006 8:02 pm 
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Quote:
Do you really want to restrict new members in those professions from joining?


I don't want to restrict anyone. I just thought it wise to get an accurate count of how many teachers or people who have codes of conduct in their profession we have on b77 before anyone starts freaking out about tightening or loosening the rules. Am I wrong to want to know how our rules affect our members' jobs in practical terms rather than hypotheticals?

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PostPosted: Wed 25 Jan , 2006 8:38 pm 
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No, but what's your cutoff for how many current members are expendable? I guess that's what I don't get here—it seems to me that if changing the rules would force off even one current, active member, that's a bad thing. Nor do I think possible future members should be irrelevant. The gain on the other side, of a few teens being able to join ToE, just does not outweigh those considerations, IMO. I'm sorry to sound harsh, but the ability to participate in one forum doesn't outweigh the ability to participate on the entire board. Especially as many of those teens are now 18 or approaching it—and of those who are younger, I have seen at least two graciously express their willingness to wait.

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PostPosted: Wed 25 Jan , 2006 9:01 pm 
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I still don't see how moving has anything to do with changing the rules. No one even suggested changing them as far as I know.

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PostPosted: Wed 25 Jan , 2006 9:07 pm 
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Where did I suggest any current members were expendable? I only want to get this count so I could understand our rules as they actually affect current members, rather than rely on hypotheticals and what ifs. I don't think, considering our size, that writing rules based on what ifs worked as well as it was hoped, so I am attempting to look at things from a different perspective.

I agree with you that the potential gains do not outweigh the potential costs in this matter. I'd like to do what is necessary to keep the current members and even entice those who have left to return. Of course, that matter needs to be a give and take.

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The gain on the other side, of a few teens being able to join ToE, just does not outweigh those considerations, IMO.


Are you under the impression that I want to eliminate the restrictions on ToE? If you are, please explain where you gathered that from any of my previous posts.

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PostPosted: Wed 25 Jan , 2006 9:17 pm 
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Sooooo... are we going to move, or do we have to settle this TOE issue first?

My understanding is that the TOE issue is not related, and can be dealt with either before or after we move to a different server, since the physical location of the server does not affect the legal issues.

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PostPosted: Wed 25 Jan , 2006 9:30 pm 
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TheEllipticalDisillusion wrote:
Quote:
The gain on the other side, of a few teens being able to join ToE, just does not outweigh those considerations, IMO.


Are you under the impression that I want to eliminate the restrictions on ToE? If you are, please explain where you gathered that from any of my previous posts.


I'm not under the impression that you personally favor it, no—sorry, TED. But the point is under discussion, so I wanted to make my own argument.

Jude, no, I see no reason why anything to do with ToE has to be settled before we move (in fact I don't see why it needs to be raised again at all, as it was argued at length last time, and the rule we have was based on the resulting consensus). I'm only responding to points others have brought up, and mainly with the purpose of reminding people of what the board already concluded about this (after a very long and grueling discussion).

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PostPosted: Wed 25 Jan , 2006 9:38 pm 
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I completely agree that we need no settle anything before moving since everything has been settled. It's just a matter of moving the site to a new location.

The problem lies with the backup, paying for it, how long it takes, etc.

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PostPosted: Wed 25 Jan , 2006 10:34 pm 
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It seems to me as though people have expressed that we switch to our own site as soon as possible. The main question I have is, how are we going to go about doing this administratively? Obviously we can't have every b77er working on this, as it would be too difficult, not to mention the fact that the majority of us (myself, for example) probably don't understand any of the technical aspects of moving to a new server. Should we have one person appointed (or voted on, or whatever) to take charge of this? Should we have (dare I say) a committee? Or do people think we can handle this without formalities? I've never done this before, so I don't really know.


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PostPosted: Wed 25 Jan , 2006 10:46 pm 
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There is no ToE issue.

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