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PostPosted: Wed 18 Jan , 2006 11:52 am 
of Vinyamar
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I'm looking at these guys for one of my other sites:

http://www.letzebuerg.net/

Prices are excellent and their location outside the US may offer some leniency on the ToE issue.

Their Turbo Plan works out at only €40 per annum

http://www.letzebuerg.net/turbo.html

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PostPosted: Wed 18 Jan , 2006 2:32 pm 
Living in hope
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Just posting to remind people that the "ToE issue," as discussed endlessly, was mainly due to U.S. people who couldn't post here if there was a sex forum for people under 18 on the same server. That problem would not change if the server moved out of the U.S.

A couple of those people have moved on now, but I'm sure some remain. And in any case, do you really want to set up b77 so U.S. attorneys and teachers and others with professional codes of conduct can't join?

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PostPosted: Thu 19 Jan , 2006 1:32 am 
Insolent Pup
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Personally, I don't care where we move to as long as people stop with the profession related guilt trips. Let's go to a Dutch server. I hear the laws are muy relaxo there.

Edit: I think I worded this harshly. I do understand the great danger to certain types of professions with regards to sex, though the normal provisions for ToE would stand regardless of which URL we call home since the charter has not been changed.

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Last edited by TheEllipticalDisillusion on Thu 19 Jan , 2006 1:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu 19 Jan , 2006 1:37 am 
The Man who Knows his Tools
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It is not based on the laws of where the server is located. It is entirely based on what occurs on the site that a person frequents. If it is publicly available that persons over the age of 18 and those under the age of 18 are able to discuss sexual matters of a personal nature with each other it can get a professional in trouble. They don't even have to POST in that part of the board, they just have to be a member for their integrity to come into play.

It isn't about guilt, it is about a legitimate threat to ones profession and reputation.

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PostPosted: Thu 19 Jan , 2006 1:39 am 
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So, what is the remedy? It seems like the abolition of the ToE would be the only viable remedy... or people don't post from work.

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PostPosted: Thu 19 Jan , 2006 1:43 am 
Kill the headlights and put it in neutral
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Well speaking as one of the few members here who actually is under the age of 18, I frankly don't care what you do with ToE. If people want to get rid of it, fine, but if most people would like to keep it then we shouldn't let laws get in the way. I'm perfectly fine with staying out of ToE until I turn 18 (though you know it pains me to miss out on any and all b77 pr0n :P ). If opening ToE to all ages has even the remote possibility of getting one of the posters here in trouble, keep it limited to those 18 or older.


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PostPosted: Thu 19 Jan , 2006 3:29 am 
Let the dice fly.
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GOD.



Didn't we already HAVE this discussion? (Elsha, you at least are excused, as I don't think you were here yet. ;) ) And wasn't it huge and long and incredibly painful? Can we please not have it all over again? :roll:

Just leave ToE the way it is, regardless of where we have our server. It isn't worth going through that again, really.

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PostPosted: Thu 19 Jan , 2006 4:02 am 
Living in hope
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The way things have been is fine. As long as ToE is restricted to people over 18, that is fine. I wasn't re-stirring the old arguments, just pointing out that more is involved than the location of the server.

And yes, it could be a genuine problem for, say, a public school teacher. I just finished editing a book on teachers and the law, and it was scarier than even I thought. Something doesn't have to BE bad to cost a teacher her job; it just has to SOUND bad.

But we've had this discussion. As I said, the way things are is fine: explicit discussions about sex are kept in ToE, and no one in ToE is under 18. So, if everyone is OK with the status quo, we have nothing to argue about.

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PostPosted: Thu 19 Jan , 2006 2:17 pm 
Aspiring to heresy
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I thought we were moving to Lidless' server, where the domain name is at present? I might be a bit out of the loop here... :help:

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PostPosted: Thu 19 Jan , 2006 11:02 pm 
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That's what's happening, yes.

Prim, I know you're worried...and I can see why. But nothing is going to be changed spontaneously just because we'll move to a new server. Seriously.

:hug:

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PostPosted: Thu 19 Jan , 2006 11:13 pm 
Living in hope
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Thanks, Ro! :hug: The fact is, I care about this place a lot.

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PostPosted: Thu 19 Jan , 2006 11:38 pm 
Sorcery in Action
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I beg forgiveneess for off topic post from all those in here...

... Im just here to say... FOR SHAME!!!!!! to the hobbit...
Way to go ignoring me on MSN girl!!!! :rage: TYPICAL!

:Wooper: :( *sigh* :P

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PostPosted: Fri 20 Jan , 2006 2:18 pm 
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Ignoring? ME?

I'm having trouble with my msn client thanks very much, and I didn't see a window from the Enchie pop up either!

Or maybe what happened is my roomie opened the comp in Lodz and I logged in automatically, and I'm not even there? :scratch:

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PostPosted: Fri 20 Jan , 2006 2:43 pm 

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Primula_Baggins wrote:
The way things have been is fine. As long as ToE is restricted to people over 18, that is fine. I wasn't re-stirring the old arguments, just pointing out that more is involved than the location of the server.

And yes, it could be a genuine problem for, say, a public school teacher. I just finished editing a book on teachers and the law, and it was scarier than even I thought. Something doesn't have to BE bad to cost a teacher her job; it just has to SOUND bad.

But we've had this discussion. As I said, the way things are is fine: explicit discussions about sex are kept in ToE, and no one in ToE is under 18. So, if everyone is OK with the status quo, we have nothing to argue about.


Sorry to disagree with you, my dear friend Primmy, but I think as currently constituted, the restricted ToE actually provides a false sense of security that could do more harm then good. As Ax pointed out a while ago, there just isn't that much of a gap between what people post in ToE (which generally is NOT sexually explicit) and what they post outside the ToE, particularly in the Turf. And its gotten worse since Ax left, not better.

After editing that book, tell me what you think would happen in the following scenario: school conducts an investigation of the internet history of all of its teachers. Investigator sees many visits to the Turf on the computer of Teacher A and goes there to check it out, and sees Estel's thread on naming Rune's tits now that she is legal (not to mention a bunch of other stuff that would be considered inappropriate for minors by most school investigators). Investigator sees that anyone 13 or over has access to this material. What do you think the result would be? And how successful do you think the defense of "well, I didn't go to ToE" would be?

I say, get rid of the restrictions on the ToE and let it all hang out. At least then people would know what they are getting into.


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PostPosted: Fri 20 Jan , 2006 5:36 pm 
* trolley dodger *
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Voronwë_the_Faithful wrote:

I say, get rid of the restrictions on the ToE and let it all hang out. At least then people would know what they are getting into.


I'm sorry, Voronwe, but I have to register my disagreement with the idea. While I know that some threads that should belong in ToE have slipped into Turf (in my opinion the thread you reference should have been moved there, but I didn't say anything at the time so I share responsibility for it), the fact is that, at the moment, Turf does not appear to be overrun with ToE threads and I'd like to keep it that way.

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PostPosted: Fri 20 Jan , 2006 6:23 pm 
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FYI, at the moment TOE isn't overrun with TOE threads.

The forum's activity has been negligeable for months.


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PostPosted: Fri 20 Jan , 2006 6:23 pm 
Seeking my nitid muliebrity
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I want to register my delight at such graceful and polite disagreements.

:Wooper:



Anthriensel, shall we assimilate Voronwe?


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PostPosted: Fri 20 Jan , 2006 6:24 pm 
Seeking my nitid muliebrity
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And yovargas?


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PostPosted: Fri 20 Jan , 2006 6:57 pm 
* trolley dodger *
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We concur with ourselves, Anthriensel. But what shall we name the Collective?

Vanthrienselgas?

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PostPosted: Fri 20 Jan , 2006 7:20 pm 
Seeking my nitid muliebrity
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:LMAO:

We think we like this a lot. Yes, we do.



But didn't we also assimilate Gimli, at some point?

:scratch:

What do we think of Vanthrienselgasimli, perhaps?


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