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ToE access amendment discussion

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Axordil
Post subject: ToE access amendment discussion
Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 3:08 pm
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Oh, I guess we have one...so who is going to run this show? I did the LAST one...:P

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ToshoftheWuffingas
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Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 4:28 pm
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*walks in and looks around*
Nice carved panelling in here.

I don't have enough committee experience to lead this.

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Nin
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Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 4:32 pm
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Not me, I don't have enough time :(

At least I can post now. :D

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Cerin
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Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 5:15 pm
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I nominate Alatar, as he seems to be the one most in charge up to this point and is an active participant in ToE.


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Alatar
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Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 5:19 pm
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I really don't think I'm qualified. If nobody else is willing to do it I'll step up to the plate but I feel a little out of my depth.

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Axordil
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Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 5:20 pm
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It's just a matter of making sure we actually get around to deciding what to put up for a vote.

Think cattle prod. :D

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Estel
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Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 5:30 pm
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:LMAO:


I'm just hoping that this discussion is more friendly than the one in the ToE.

Perhaps those on the committee who don't have ToE access should be given it for a few days so that they can at least review the threads about this topic that exist there? I understand if they don't want to review the other threads to see how the ToE works, but access to the previous discussions, at least, should be available.


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Cerin
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Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 5:37 pm
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dp

Last edited by Cerin on Wed 14 Sep , 2005 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Cerin
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Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 5:41 pm
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Alatar (Current Ranger)
Axordil
Estel
Nin (Former Ranger)
Cerin
Tosh
Voronwe (Loremaster)
Prim/Eru (Mayor)

Prim has withdrawn. I think that leaves only Voronwe who currently does not have access.

Edit

I'm sorry, that made it sound as though Prim doesn't have access, but I believe she does.

Edit #2

Sorry again, that was misstated. Prim has said she will withdraw as soon as Eru takes over as Mayor.


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Cerin
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Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 6:23 pm
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I guess while we wait, I'll start out by saying that when I first heard about this proposed amendment, it struck me very much as a re-vote issue within the proscribed time period. We recently passed the charter amendment regarding ToE with all of its provisions, including the eligibility provision. We are now seeking to amend the eligibility requirements before the requisite amount of time has passed since the original vote ratifying this article. So I'm wondering why we aren't required to go through the prescribed process for bringing a revote.

Edit

Or perhaps the time-limit clause applies only to Binding Votes and not to Charter amendments?


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Eruname
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Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 6:39 pm
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Even if it was during a time limit, all that's needed is for the committee to agree that their has been a significant change of circumstances which makes a revote necessary.

I'm now taking over as Mayor.

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Estel
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Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 6:41 pm
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More of an addition than a change of what's there.


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Cerin
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Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 7:10 pm
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Erunáme wrote:
Even if it was during a time limit, all that's needed is for the committee to agree that their has been a significant change of circumstances which makes a revote necessary.
Well yes, Eru, that was my point. Are we first going to discuss whether there has been a significant change of circumstances which makes a revote necessary? So far, it seems to me the legitimacy of the re-vote has been assumed.


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ToshoftheWuffingas
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Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 7:15 pm
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The significant change of circumstances is that the board is now open and not invite only. Does this need agreement?

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Estel
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Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 7:44 pm
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The question of whether or not this is a revote or an addition has been discussed. No one is suggesting changing the current charter. What is suggested is adding to the current charter. That is not a revote. The point is moot.


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Cerin
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Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 7:50 pm
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ToshoftheWuffingas wrote:
The significant change of circumstances is that the board is now open and not invite only. Does this need agreement?
:LMAO:

Forgive me, Tosh, I'm laughing because I was on the wilko re-vote committee, and you should have seen the discussion that preceded that agreement (which is indeed needed if this is approached as a re-vote). In addition, 'the board is now open' was my mantra in that discussion, and I was continually told that the opening of the board was irrelevant as a change in circumstance.

But perhaps Ax will explain why it is not irrelevant here (I never did quite grasp his reasoning then).

:D :D


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Cerin
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Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 7:55 pm
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Estel wrote:
No one is suggesting changing the current charter.
Of course we are suggesting changing the charter. That is what an amendment is.

Quote:
What is suggested is adding to the current charter.
Adding to the charter is changing the charter, is amending the charter.

Quote:
That is not a revote. The point is moot.
No point is moot if it is of concern to a committee member. :) To me, this appears to be a re-vote on one aspect of the ToE Charter provision that was recently ratified.


I will PM Voronwe to verify that he is our Loremaster, and ask for his opinion on whether the period of limitation on revotes applies to Charter Amendments.


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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 8:03 pm
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I'm here. :)

I'll be mostly just expressing opinions about interpretations of the Charter, but I certainly am entitled to and will express opinions about substantive issues if I have such an opinion, and I am voting member of the committee. If people in the committee feel that it would be helpful for me to have my ToE permissions restored so that I can read the discussion since I left it, I would agree to it.

Putting my loremaster hat back on, I don't believe that this issue involves a "revote" such that we need to determine whether there is changed circumstances justifying proceeding with the vote. As Estel pointed out, the membership will not be revoting on a previously voted-on Charter provision, we will be voting on a new amendment to the Charter. I would encourage the committee not to waste time on the "changed circumstances" question and to focus instead on determining what options will be on the ballot.


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Cerin
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Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 8:16 pm
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Voronwë_the_Faithful wrote:
As Estel pointed out, the membership will not be revoting on a previously voted-on Charter provision,
Voronwe, this is the section of the Charter that I am thinking of:
Quote:
Article 6: Age Restricted Forum
Ratified May 30, 2005; June 6, 2005

¶3: Eligibility to Access the Age Restricted Forum
A member becomes eligible to access the "Thinking of England" forum after three months and 100 posts. After this time, a member can request access to the forum from a Ranger.
We voted on the ToE article of the Charter, and in so doing, we voted on eligibility to access the forum and accepted the above conditions. Are we not reconsidering eligibility to access the forum (in the same way that we reconsidered various options for disposition of the wilko thread)? As was explained to me then, a re-vote doesn't have to be a matter of identical wording.


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Estel
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Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 8:26 pm
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Quote:
Are we not reconsidering eligibility to access the forum
Not exactly. A member still has the same eligibility as they did before. "A member becomes eligible to access the "Thinking of England" forum after three months and 100 posts. After this time, a member can request access to the forum from a Ranger. " This is still in effect and will stay the same.

This isn't about eligibility, this is about the members of the ToE to deny membership as a group, if they feel it is necessary. Semantics, yes, but it is somewhat different. A member would have just as much eligibility as they do now - the difference is that current ToE members would have the ability to say, No. The member would then have just as much eligibility to apply for entry in X amount of months.

This would not change the status of a new poster, it would simply give credit to the fact that there is sensitive material on the boards, and there needs to be an out in order to protect that material.

My apologies if my point is not clear.


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