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VOTE OVER -- Preliminary Ballot/Denial of Access

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Sat 24 Sep , 2005 4:01 pm
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Cerin wrote:
Voronwe, did you suggest that seriously, are were you trying to force some kind of realization upon people?
Based on my reference to Solomon's choice, what do you think?


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Cerin
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Posted: Sat 24 Sep , 2005 4:15 pm
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I think I should go read what you actually said, V. :)

Thanks for the feedback, Alatar. I don't think it will be that hard to incorporate into the ballot, but I won't be able to work on it until tonight.


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ToshoftheWuffingas
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Posted: Sat 24 Sep , 2005 7:12 pm
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I think we are close enough to a range of options, many of which would work in practice to achieve the aims of the forum posters and that reflect views put forward here and in Business.
I think the question of false allegations is a serious matter that needs harsh penalties but it is a matter for the governance of the whole board, not just ToE and should be dealt with separately.

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Axordil
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Posted: Sat 24 Sep , 2005 7:16 pm
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I agree with Alatar--it is subtly different in several ways that add up to a very different FEEL to the process. I like the fact the objections are public and yet not attributed...and you know, if we were just going on poll results (I currently like 12 as a poll threshold, btw, after looking at the abortive results of the infamous Turf/Symposium polls), I wouldn't even care if someone used an obviously dubious objection, because I think most ToE people will see those and wince...and think hard before supporting them.

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Cerin
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Posted: Sat 24 Sep , 2005 10:25 pm
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Ok, then this is what I was thinking for the actual ballot question. This would be added as option C of what is now Question 14.

Edit

B. PM a Ranger/send an email to the Admin. account stating their objection and giving a brief explanation of the reasons.

Once two objections have been received, a Ranger will start a thread in the ToE forum and will announce that an objection to the petitioner gaining access to the forum has been submitted, and will state the nature of the objection. The thread will continue to be updated in this way if additional objections are received. Halfway through the objection period, the Ranger will add a poll to the thread. ToE members who believe the petitioner should be denied access based on the objections listed will vote in the poll. If 12 ToE members vote to exclude the petitioner, the petitioner will be denied access.


Question: Suppose there is only one objection submitted. Should that be enough to trigger the poll? Should it take three objections to trigger the poll?

Tosh , I heartily agree that the question of abuse procedures should be handled separately. I wouldn't know where to begin with that, and we would essentially have to start over in committee contemplating the mechanics of such a procedure.

Last edited by Cerin on Sun 25 Sep , 2005 4:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Axordil
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Posted: Sun 25 Sep , 2005 3:09 am
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Three objections would certainly be enough. But given that the objections are out there for everyone to look at, even two might be.

I would prefer three, just because I like the number better. :P

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Cerin
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Posted: Sun 25 Sep , 2005 4:04 am
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I've changed it to two objections.

I'll send a PM to committee members asking that they review the ballot.

Perhaps we could have all committee members post in the thread when they have reviewed the ballot and are ready for the vote to begin. Then we'll know who we're waiting for.

Do we want to set a reasonable time limit, or wait ad infinitum?


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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Sun 25 Sep , 2005 4:48 am
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I'm ready to vote. :)


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Estel
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Posted: Sun 25 Sep , 2005 5:25 am
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I, as well. Just hope I do the voting thing correctly.


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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Sun 25 Sep , 2005 5:41 am
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No sweat, Estel. You've been a rock throughout this whole process. :love:


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Alatar
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Posted: Sun 25 Sep , 2005 10:21 am
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Looks good Cerin. I'm ready to vote.

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Cerin
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Posted: Sun 25 Sep , 2005 1:32 pm
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My apologies, I noticed the wording of Question 1 didn't reflect the expanded choices in standard of objection so I've changed the wording in the last sentence (and also removed the second sentence for redundancy):

Seeking to deny another member the benefits and enjoyment of posting in this forum should not be undertaken lightly. Everyone who posts here must take full responsibility for their decision to reveal intimate and sensitive information to people they do not know and may not like. It would be unfair to try to shift the responsibility for your own feelings of vulnerability to others by trying to keep them out of this forum if your concern is not in some way related to an awareness of questionable behavior on their part.


Edited to change 'is wrong' to 'would be unfair'

-------------------------------------------------------


I just wanted to say as a voter that I'm rather excited about Wilma's proposal, as it seems to reconcile some opposing concerns in a way none of the other proposals has done.

It addresses the concern Voronwe (and Wilma) raised about people feeling reluctant to express their individual objection for fear it will not be considered 'good enough' (since the objections will be assessed as a group). It requires everyone objecting to explain their reasons. It addresses the concerns Alatar raised about transparency within the forum (while still protecting people from exposure who are for some reason reticent to state their objection publicly) and provides for the transparency of taking part of the process out of ToE.


I am also ready to vote.

Last edited by Cerin on Sun 25 Sep , 2005 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Axordil
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Posted: Sun 25 Sep , 2005 2:26 pm
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I'm glad we waited for Wilma's suggestion, but I am more than ready to vote...

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Cerin
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Posted: Sun 25 Sep , 2005 3:32 pm
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We await Nin, Tosh and Eruname.


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Estel
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Posted: Sun 25 Sep , 2005 4:39 pm
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Honestly, I'm good with that statement up until the "It is wrong" part. Seriously feels like a lecture from mummy.
Quote:
It is wrong to try to shift the responsibility for your own feelings of vulnerability to others by trying to keep them out of this forum if your concern is not in some way related to an awareness of questionable behavior on their part.
Couldn't there be a better way of wording this that doesn't sound so much like " :doh1: :poke: :nono: :nono: "

(emoticons used for ironic purposes) :whistle:

I mean, when communicating with someone something they shouldn't do, telling them that they're wrong and using the word "You" comes across as very confrontational. Maybe something like....

Quote:
It would be dangerous to try to shift the responsibility for personal feelings of vulnerability to others by trying to keep them out of this forum if the concern is not in some way related to an awareness of questionable behavior on their part.

Do you see what I mean, or am I not making any sense? I instinctively flinch away from all encompassing statements where someone says "that is wrong!" like a commandment, and then goes on to address the audience as "You," as if everyone reading is going to make that mistake and shame on them for doing so. My very first instinct upon reading that is "fuck that! I'll decide for myself what I think is right and wrong and screw you for trying to force me into your version!" Which is pretty messed up, considering I agree with the version written. I just know that there are a lot of people who, like me, dig in their heels when someone else tries to tell them what is right and wrong and what they should think.


I would never ever in a million years agree to vote for the first version of the statement, while the second one I would have no problem with. It's just a change of a few words, and means the same thing, but the tone is completely different, and much more friendly.


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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Yes, Estel, you are making sense, and I very much agree with you.


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Cerin
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Posted: Sun 25 Sep , 2005 4:58 pm
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Yes, Estel, that makes perfect sense. I don't care for 'It is dangerous', as that doesn't strike me as quite right.

'It would be wrong ...'

'It is (would be) misguided ...'

'It is (would be) unfair ...'


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Estel
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Posted: Sun 25 Sep , 2005 5:07 pm
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'It is (would be) unfair ...'

perfect! :)


I would say "would be" as opposed to "is," simply because "is" has that "We've decided for you that it is unfair" while "would be" is referring to a future tense that hasn't happened yet - doesn't sound so... harsh (not the word I'm thinking of, but harsh will have to do - I'm only on my first cup of coffee ;) )

Last edited by Estel on Sun 25 Sep , 2005 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Cerin
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Posted: Sun 25 Sep , 2005 5:08 pm
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Do you prefer 'is' or 'would be'?

Edit

I like 'would be' because then we're not implying so much that anyone has done it or is thinking about doing it.

Last edited by Cerin on Sun 25 Sep , 2005 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Estel
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Edited a comment about that into my post :P I also prefer "would be" :)


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