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Regarding keeping people out of the Thinking of England forum, do you favor a system that
Requires explanations from ToE members as to why they want to keep someone out of the forum 70%  70%  [ 19 ]
Does not require explanations from ToE members as to why they want to keep someone out of the forum 30%  30%  [ 8 ]
Total votes : 27
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PostPosted: Wed 21 Sep , 2005 10:44 pm 
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We're trying to get an idea of how people feel about this.


Last edited by Cerin on Wed 21 Sep , 2005 11:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed 21 Sep , 2005 11:01 pm 
Seeking my nitid muliebrity
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Wow, Cerin... a threefer!!!

:Wooper:

I have knee-jerk answers to all three of these questions, but I should probably peruse the Jury Room stuff first to see what some of the arguments are.


Many times people have very good insights that I have never considered.

:)


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PostPosted: Thu 22 Sep , 2005 12:24 am 
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Please be aware that this poll is actually 4 to 3.

I misunderstood the question as it was not clearly worded and thus answered it wrong.

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PostPosted: Thu 22 Sep , 2005 12:42 am 
Als u het leven te ernstig neemt, mist u de betekenis.
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Are you asking that every single ToE member that objects to a new member joining has to give a reason if it comes to a poll?

Are you talking about a poll or a veto?

Are you talking about A members need to give specific reasons before a poll should be taken?

Are you talking about B members do not need to give specific reasons before a poll should be taken?

Are you talking about C members need to give specific reasons before an automatic veto should be made without a poll?

Are you talking about D members do not need to give specific reasons before an automatic veto should be made without a poll?

And who exactly requires the explanations? The ToE forum, the main forum, a Ranger, the proposed new member? And is this direct from the posters themselves or as a statement from a Ranger with non-attribution as to the source(s)?

I don't see how anyone can vote in this straw poll without more specifics.

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PostPosted: Thu 22 Sep , 2005 1:04 am 
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Lidless:

No, it doesn't have to be more specific than that. We're looking for general parameters first and foremost, and one of those is explanation/no explanation.

This is NOT a ballot vote...it's an opinion poll, designed to ask exactly what it asks.

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PostPosted: Thu 22 Sep , 2005 2:29 am 
Als u het leven te ernstig neemt, mist u de betekenis.
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But my answer depends on whether the proposed member gets to hear the specific objections, and who made them.

A timid ToE member may have the guts to object to a Ranger over a valid point, but not to have the proposed member know it was them.

Personally, I think cutting someone from ToE is such a serious business that accountability dictates that a complaint should have an autograph.

Others may think that non-confrontational ToE members will be unfairly marginalized if that autograph is known to the proposed member.

In other words, for some, their answer will depend on whether the attribution will be made known to the proposed ToE member.

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PostPosted: Thu 22 Sep , 2005 6:01 am 
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Thank you! and 'bump'


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PostPosted: Thu 22 Sep , 2005 6:45 am 
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Well I was thinking only certain potentially dangerous people should be kept off. But for most people party on!!!!

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PostPosted: Thu 22 Sep , 2005 6:51 am 
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I think really what poll we need is whthere people want ToE to exist or not. That seems to be what the real question is. If they do (and I think many people do) I think then people will regard these questions with a new light.

Think about these questions. Your answers can really result in the forum continuing or not. Many of these if going the more open route will result in toE not existing so for those who want to actually join, think it over.

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PostPosted: Thu 22 Sep , 2005 9:43 am 
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My answer to the question, as it is worded, would be, "It depends."
Not very helpful, I know, but the question is just so damn vague that it's the best I can do.

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PostPosted: Thu 22 Sep , 2005 1:45 pm 
The Grey Amaretto as Supermega-awesome Proud Heretic Girl
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My question is this:

Why do the ToE members get to decide who joins and who doesn't? IOW, why do the ToE members get to say, "We don't want this person in here"? Someone can PM me the response if it shouldn't be discussed publicly. (I believe that I'm aware of one situation that was being discussed as a hypothetical.)

I thought it was an open forum to anyone over the age of 18.

For now, my answer is:

None of the above. The members of ToE should NOT decide who gets in and who doesn't. It should be open to anyone over the age of consent. If someone entering the forum begins to behave in an unacceptable manner, then you proceed from there, as you have outlined for other parts of the board.


Lali

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PostPosted: Thu 22 Sep , 2005 2:08 pm 
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Lalaith, I am only aware of one situation and it is definitely not hypothetical. There is in fact an urgency to these deliberations. The trouble is that once inside, the damage is done, it's too late then. If a decision were made to allow known troublemakers access to the forum the entire forum would fold immediately after mass deletions of posts long before that person got in. I would like to say again that we want the new people to come in, there's no feeling of 'does this one measure up, maybe that one doesn't' . There are no hurdles to jump other than an initial chance to get to know you. That said, the posters there need to feel safe and if you post there too I would want you to feel safe too.

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PostPosted: Thu 22 Sep , 2005 2:11 pm 
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Thank you, Lalaith. May I suggest you view tolkienpurist's post at the end of the Business Room ToE discussion thread, just for insight. I think between your view just stated here and hers there, are the two extremes we are attempting to deal with here.

I would just answer your question in this way -- there needs to be a mechanism for keeping people out who have already demonstrated that they cannot be trusted with the kind of sensitive information that is revealed in that forum.


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PostPosted: Thu 22 Sep , 2005 6:20 pm 
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Begging your indulgence, and a big 'thank-you' to those who have participated.


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PostPosted: Fri 23 Sep , 2005 7:01 am 
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One more 'bump'. Thanks to everyone who participated!


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PostPosted: Fri 23 Sep , 2005 6:44 pm 
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Wilma wrote:
Well I was thinking only certain potentially dangerous people should be kept off. But for most people party on!!!!

Wilma, the problem is to know who is "potentially dangerous" - plus, you can't condemn anyone before they've actually committed a crime!

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