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Do you approve the amendment to Article 6?
Yes 76%  76%  [ 45 ]
No 24%  24%  [ 14 ]
Total votes : 59
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed 26 Oct , 2005 2:54 pm 
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Perhaps a general announcement from the rangers of those who have been in the queue, with a request that anyone missed say so ASAP if they want to be in the first batch?

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PostPosted: Wed 26 Oct , 2005 3:05 pm 
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Perhaps we should stagger them every five days in groups of three or something, so the forum isn't overwhelmed with announcement threads.

tinwe

I guess the first member discussion thread and this one (once we're sure we're done with it) should also be moved to the Historical forum.


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PostPosted: Wed 26 Oct , 2005 3:09 pm 
of Vinyamar
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I'd be inclined to just put up one thread with all the people who are due to join. Remember, we're not voting on everyone, in fact we're probably not voting on anyone.

I don't see the need to start seperate threads for each member in this initial batch. At a later obviously there will be a thread for each petitioner but for the moment I think we should just use common sense and not tie our hands behinds our backs because "it says in the charter".

There's no practical difference between one thread and 10 in this case except that 10 might annoy people :)

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PostPosted: Wed 26 Oct , 2005 3:19 pm 
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There are only four eligible members on the list right now. I agree that it is unlikely any of them would be denied, but I still think we should follow the procedure, just as a formality as well as to get a feeling for how it works.

Ax, do you mean a global announcement?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed 26 Oct , 2005 3:26 pm 
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Alatar wrote:
I'd be inclined to just put up one thread with all the people who are due to join.

We can't just do what we're inclined to do. We have to follow the process we so laboriously arrived at. What the hell did I just devote the last couple of months of my life to, if we're not even going to follow the process we decided on with so much blood, sweat and tears?

Each petitioner gets their own announcement thread; each petitioner is considered separately.


Quote:
I don't see the need to start seperate threads for each member in this initial batch.

We did not set up one system for some people and another system for other people. If you did not see the need to start separate threads for petitioners, the time to say so would have been when we were writing the amendment.


Quote:
At a later obviously there will be a thread for each petitioner but for the moment I think we should just use common sense and not tie our hands behinds our backs because "it says in the charter".

The common sense should have been applied in the committee when we were coming up with the process. We don't just disregard the process we've set up. If you think the process we chose 'ties our hands behind our backs', the time to bring that up would have been while we were coming up with it.


Quote:
I think we should just use common sense and not tie our hands behinds our backs because "it says in the charter".

I'm really getting sick of the deragatory use of that phrase. Do we handle the Ranger flow a certain way because 'it says it in the charter'? Do we follow a certain procedure for voting because 'it says it in the charter'? Would we just set aside those processes because we found them inconvenient?

Look, if you think the process is unwieldy, that's the committee's fault, and it's a little late to point it out now.

:)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed 26 Oct , 2005 3:50 pm 
of Vinyamar
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Whatever.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed 26 Oct , 2005 4:16 pm 
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I believe everyone who applies DESERVES their own announcement thread, and am glad the Charter reflects that. It's not like it's an onerous task: in the case of the people I know of, rather the opposite, I would think.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed 26 Oct , 2005 4:32 pm 
One of the Bronte Sisters
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Cerin: Your final category in the Convention catalogue thread was 'Secondary Docoments'. Should I also have that section and link to the ToE sticky and the Ranger Handbook since they are being amended?

That's probably not necessary in the Category thread for Amendments. The links in the Convention thread led to the threads where the Handbooks were presented for the first time and discussed and modified. We're not starting a new thread about the Handbooks as a result of the Amendment so there shouldn't need to be additional links.

Ax: When Cerin first asked about about what to do next, I was thinking about the issue that you raised ... traditionally one does not overwrite prior text in something like a Charter but puts a note on the original "This Article was Amended such-and-such a date," and then all Amendments are listed separately at the end.

But there seems to be an undercurrent of thought here that we take our Charter a bit too seriously, and it is too long, and so forth, and so I wondered if it wouldn't end up being confusing to people to go to an Article and then discover that they have to go to its Amendment instead.

I think people would appreciate having the actual, up-to-date thing they're supposed to be using in the Jury Room in its simplest possible form. That is, you go to the Article and you read the most recent version.

But the historian in me does not like to expunge past versions. So I'm thinking that in the pdf version that you maintain perhaps we should do it the more formal way. Leave the original article intact, but right after the
Article title, a note that the Article was Amended, giving the Amendment number (number one), and then placing the rewritten article in its entirety at the end, or whatever portion of it must be rewritten.

I think that on my hard drive copy I will do it like this, just for the sake of posterity. But I wouldn't like to sacrifice the user-friendliness of the Jury Room copy and the Geocities copy for the sake of historical correctness.

Jn

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed 26 Oct , 2005 4:39 pm 
Thanks to Holby

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Jnyusa

Once you're a Ranger, I'd appreciate it if you would just check out the Charter Amendment thread and tweak it if you think necessary, and at that time you can delete the Secondary Documents heading, which I put in just in case. I've already forwarded the text to tinwe to place in a thread in Historical interest, so I can't delete it myself.

Will the links to the discussion threads in Business still be accurate once these threads are moved to Historical Interest? If not, you'll have to change those, too.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed 26 Oct , 2005 4:44 pm 
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Cerin, I believe threads are linked by thread number and the board software remembers where they are—so the links should still work.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed 26 Oct , 2005 4:48 pm 
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Thanks, Prim. I thought that was probably the case. :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed 26 Oct , 2005 5:06 pm 
One of the Bronte Sisters
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Just confirming that moving the thread does not change the link.

And I'll be glad to edit the unnecessary category out of the post, Cerin. No problem.

Jn

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed 26 Oct , 2005 6:08 pm 
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Am I on the list? If I'm not please add me. :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed 26 Oct , 2005 6:27 pm 
Not so deep as a well

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Just in case, I would drop a PM to a Ranger too, Sidonzo.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed 26 Oct , 2005 6:34 pm 
I love lamp!
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Now ToE's really in trouble. :devil:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed 26 Oct , 2005 6:44 pm 
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I object to Stupid_Orcs gaining access to ToE based on a real-life encounter with said poster. It turns out that Stupid_Orcs' real name is Stupid_Orcs, which establishes incontrovertibly that she is an orc. (I have witnesses to substantiate this. In Florida, Lidless introduced her as "Stupid_Orcs, otherwise known as Stupid_Orcs.") I submit that the members of ToE have consented to the posting of personal information to be viewed only by other homo sapiens and have relied on implicit representations by this board that access to the sensitive forum will be granted only to humans, not to stupid orcs. Further, as you can imagine, meeting not only an orc - but stupid orcs - was a real-life encounter of a seriously harmful nature.

Similar objections should operate to bar elves from access to the forum.

Of the four petitioners, only TM passes the humanity test. The rest should be excluded forthwith.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed 26 Oct , 2005 6:49 pm 
I love lamp!
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Ha! You wish! I object to your objection! I am not an orc and if anyone had read Boromir's VSD, they would know that. :P

And I summarily wish to kick purists out of ToE! I want to ToE to be properly prepared before I get there. :cool:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed 26 Oct , 2005 7:07 pm 
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I have a question for someone who might know better than me. Sidonzo was a member before the Charter went into effect. My understanding was that those members were grandfathered into the ToE and were not required to meet the eligibility requirements other than age. Has that changed?

TP,

Griffon64 is a longstanding member of the ToE and is not a homo-sapiens but a mythical beast. I’m afraid the precedent has already been set for admittance of alien races. Sorry.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed 26 Oct , 2005 7:18 pm 
Not so deep as a well

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Tinwe--I believe you are right. Now that I checked for it, I see that Sidonzo's join date is way back in March, and so she should have already had access, I believe.

And of course the Charter also prohibits discrimination based on race. So orcs, elves, gryphons and lutefisk eaters are all treated just as poorly as humans. :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed 26 Oct , 2005 7:18 pm 
I love lamp!
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:razz: Even if I was an orc TP!

Which I'm not.

An orc I mean. *shifty eyes* :P



:love: 'Cause tp rules (in more ways than one). ;)

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