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Eruname
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Posted: Fri 04 Feb , 2005 5:37 pm
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I got around to reading your post Jn and I think I kind of understand. I think it will become more clear once I actually see what you're talking about.
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We could just vote on those items that we didn't agree on
I kind of like this. If people seem to be agreeing on something in a discussion (like no mods) then I would say it's safe to go ahead an implement that. Many people have already ready my little voter apathy soapbox speech and I think it's pretty well known that you need to get involved if you care. If someone cared about an issue enough that they didn't like it, I would think they'd let it known. So if there aren't any dissenters then we shouldn't waste voting time on it.
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I realized that with the kind of poll options we have at our disposal, and the ten day voting period, it will take us until 2007 to vote on every element of our charter/constitution/whatever.
I had no idea it could take that long! :Q
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I sat down earlier in the week with my sharp pencil and tried to do a PERT diagram
You have fun doing this kind of stuff don't you? ;) :P


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Guruthostirn
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Posted: Fri 04 Feb , 2005 6:01 pm
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Of course the admins can be around for problems...it just seemed like the "ranger" idea was a bit over the top. Like I said...problems get reported.

Immediate action authority isn't a problem...and simplifies things.

Eru...ever going to put up another picture? You look so bare...

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Eruname
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Posted: Fri 04 Feb , 2005 7:33 pm
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Well, I haven't must felt like it lately, but I've put one up now. Halplm has stated that his cats are scary, so I decided to show off a pic of my cat which is scarier! :P

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Berhael
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Posted: Fri 04 Feb , 2005 7:38 pm
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Yikes! :shock: I don't know if he's scary or scared... but it's a funny pic :mrgreen:

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Guruthostirn
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Posted: Fri 04 Feb , 2005 7:39 pm
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Good stuff! Too bad the only cat I can claim as being owned by is 18 years old...and not too scary anymore. However, the six or seven Other ones she hangs out with...who knows.

Edit: Hmm...do we need a cat lover's thread?

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Sat 05 Feb , 2005 5:22 pm
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People, below are summarized some of the things we seem to have near-consensus on. I've put in color the things that seem to need decision and/or confirmation.

Maybe we could focus on the first paragraph and resolve/confirm the pettier items. Then move on to a concrete discussion of what actually warrants admin intervention and the question of bans.

Meanwhile, I'm also working on drafting suggestions for a dispute-resolution process based on things mentioned in this thread, but I want to wait a bit before getting into that.

*****************

B77 is a member-moderated board.

We have x administrators who serve three-month terms and are selected from among the members by nomination and vote. Admins have the power to edit or delete posts, ban posters for certain offenses (to be defined), and propose banning for other kinds of offenses (to be defined). In all other kinds of disputes they will intervene only at the request of members affected by the dispute.
• Administrative positions are voluntary
• Members become eligible for administrator after being on the board for x months or x posts, whichever comes sooner
• The same person may serve as administrator more than once, but not in two consecutive terms.
• Administrative terms are staggered so that x new administrators are nominated every x months.

Offenses on which Admins may take immediate action without consulting the members:.

Members cannot be banned for any reasons other than those listed here. (Sounds like some things should warrant immediate banning, like spamming porn, whereas others emerge from unresolved disputes and need a different mechanism, on which I'll offer my opinion later.)

************
Jn

p.s. sorry to interrupt the cat discussion. My own cat was really, really sick yesterday. Something was obstructing his bowel and I thought he'd need surgery, but he seems to have passed it whatever it was and he's ok today. :)

Last edited by Jnyusa on Tue 15 Feb , 2005 3:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Sunsilver
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Posted: Sat 05 Feb , 2005 5:31 pm
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If I may jump in here....

I help moderate the largest nursing site on the web. A couple of years ago, we suddenly realized just how necessary it was for SOMEONE to be available at all times to immediately suspend posting priviledges for spammers. Mind you, when you've got well over 100 forums, and a spammer is diligently working their way through them, posting the same ad in each one, it's a bit more necessary than it would be on a board this size.

But, mark my words, it WILL happen!

[Sunsilver, who has just finished deleting 14 identical posts on Allnurses... po'ed DAMN SPAMMERS!! :x ]


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Rodia
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Posted: Sat 05 Feb , 2005 5:34 pm
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My cat is scariest.

Jny, you're amazing. I will ruminate on that post.

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Guruthostirn
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Posted: Sat 05 Feb , 2005 5:44 pm
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Doesn't sound too bad...but I see where Sunsilver is coming from. Do we just want to jack the admins up to 9 or 10?

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Sat 05 Feb , 2005 7:04 pm
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I do think we need more admins than we have right now.

Do we hold elections every month right now? I know that the terms are 3 months, and staggered, but I haven't figured out yet how you're keeping track of them.

Jn

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Guruthostirn
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Posted: Sat 05 Feb , 2005 7:07 pm
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I don't know...I know we'll have to have them fairly often if we're going to keep the shifts down...but I'd prefer if we didn't have to bother with it Too often...

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"No stop signs, speed limits, no body's gonna slow me down..."

"You can run, but you'll die tired." -- What the archer said to the knight.


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Jnyusa
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Posted: Sat 05 Feb , 2005 7:18 pm
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Okkkkk .... definition of "too often?"?

I was thinking that elections every three months would be nice, but if the terms are three months and so are the elections it's impossible to stagger the terms. Maybe we should vote every three terms on three terms at once ... for example:

Member x for term beginning March
member y for term beginning March

Member w for term beginning April
Member z for term beginning April

Etc.

Jn

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Epigraph on the tombstone of W.C. Fields.


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Guruthostirn
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Posted: Sat 05 Feb , 2005 7:28 pm
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That'd work...my only objection would be that people might have different attitudes later on, but the answer to that is that if people have problems at All with a person they probably won't get elected...

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That crazy American Jerk...

"No stop signs, speed limits, no body's gonna slow me down..."

"You can run, but you'll die tired." -- What the archer said to the knight.


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Jnyusa
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Posted: Sat 05 Feb , 2005 7:31 pm
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I do think we should make the voting process as easy as we can so that people don't shrug it off.

Jn

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Epigraph on the tombstone of W.C. Fields.


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Rodia
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Posted: Sat 05 Feb , 2005 7:47 pm
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Yes. And I also had an idea- we should definitely have an email newsletter. That way people would know that a vote on a certain issue is happening and could long on even if they weren't planning too. Nothing big, just a notice people would get every once in a while when something important was happening. Then perhaps the next issue would have the results of the votes.
It would be automated...there's surely such an option on this board. One could choose not to receive it, of course.

Perhaps we should also consider not having (in the future, not talking about the organisation right now that should be as speedy as possible) issues voted on at any accidental time- but to have for example votes start only on mondays, every two weeks. (invites would be different I guess).

That way we could keep better track of what we're dealing with, and people wouldn't worry about missing a vote on a new issue. They would know to check back next monday, (or in two weeks or a month or whatever) to find out what's next on the agenda.
Also, if too many problems cropped up all at once we could make a schedule for working them out.
And there would be the regular newsletter.

Is this a crap idea or does it make any sense?:P

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Guruthostirn
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Posted: Sat 05 Feb , 2005 7:51 pm
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It's definitely not crap, at least the two main things I got out of it...

I'm not sure whether the scheduled issue thing will work, but I like the idea of combining it with the newsletter. We should have a fairly regular newsletter...maybe every couple weeks...to let people know what's happening. Squiddy raised some interesting points over in another thread, and I've been thinking we need a "vision statement" at the very least. A newsletter can go over what has been happening, and important discussions that are going on. But also, when Really important things come up, like voting for admin, voting on stuff which really affects the board, we might want to send out notices...but from a different email from the reg. updates! I'd miss it in all the ones I get...

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"No stop signs, speed limits, no body's gonna slow me down..."

"You can run, but you'll die tired." -- What the archer said to the knight.


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truehobbit
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Posted: Sun 06 Feb , 2005 1:31 am
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Could we please NOT call it a "vision" statement?

Makes me want to barf! :roll:

As to the points for discussion - I love the idea with the newsletter! If an important decision comes up, that's just the thing to get everybody who is interested in for the vote!

I don't really see how the scheduled voting should work - that is, not only would someone have to remember when it's time to put up the vote, posters would have to remember, too!
For myself, I can safely say that I'd never know when it's the second Monday again, or so.
(I can barely remember when it's my turn to clean the staircase in our apartment-building - it's each two weeks, and still I have to look at my calendar to make sure.)

Hmmmh - yes, too often could get annoying, but once a month isn't that bad, especially if we are voting on new members all the time, too. And once we don't vote on members any more, a vote once a month won't be so bad.
Although on the other hand, the very regularity might be annoying. I can just see myself going "not another admin vote AGAIN!" after half a year of monthly votes. ;)

Maybe we could give it a try, and if it gets on our nerves, we switch to the three-monthly vote on all the admins, like Jny suggested.

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Sun 06 Feb , 2005 4:11 am
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"Could we please NOT call it a "vision" statement?"

TH, lol, you're so right. This terminology is the Madison Avenue/Fleet Street way of putting 'spin' on Business Strategy.

Technically what we need is a "Business Plan," which always begins with a Mission Statement. The purpose of the Mission Statement is to keep the business from pursuing multiple contradictory objectives. Whenever some new project is proposed, it should be compared to the Mission Statement for consistency, then compared to Resources for feasibility, and so on.

The people who put 'spin' on things - (like referring to losses as negative profits) - those folks decided that if the Mission Statement were called a 'Vision Statement' it would make us sound like visionaries ... and of course it does have that connotation, so now every Joe with a lemonade stand issues a Vision Statement but has no clue how it fits into his business practice and his strategy.

In fact, what we should draft is a Business Plan.

Now that Squiddy is here she's clueing us in to server options and such, and all those things are things that one would put in a business plan ... scheduling out your growth, setting objectives, and so forth. Squid made one good point - that it is a lot easier to make decisions and draft plans when the membership is small.

One of the things that is happening now is that all of us want to bring certain friends on to the board because we believe they'll be assets to B77. Given that the creation of B77 was an idea about community, I think it's a good thing for us to continue bringing these people on board. But some of them will involve themselves more in the creation of content than in the creation of plans, and we should allow ourselves to function ad hoc I think, let every person find their own strength here, while keeping in mind that all the blanks should be filled in before we open to the public.

At the same time, it's wise for us to remember that the purpose of the Invites is to bring people who will be assets to this process, so we need to have at least a vague idea of what we are trying to become in order to choose folks who will strengthen us.

Jn

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truehobbit
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Posted: Sun 06 Feb , 2005 2:39 pm
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LOL, I didn't know that about "vision" statements in business - totally agree it's rubbish.
I was thinking of the TORC-vision, of course. That term has been used so much with so much negative effect, it makes my stomach turn each time I just hear the word!

Good point about knowing what we want in order to bring people in who will strengthen the place accordingly.

On the other hand, we aren't sure at all what we want in terms of content - we just want as many people as possible who can cope with a self-modded board, who are able to make well-reasoned contributions in discussions and have a sense of humour to deal with our liberal language, isn't that right?

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Sun 06 Feb , 2005 2:50 pm
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Th - yes, I think for now that's the best thing we can do.

I have felt that the content will define itself better as more people arrive, and so will the character of the board.

Jn

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