I'll divide this reply in two parts, in order to address the two very different questions here.
First I'd like to respond to Voronwe, Leoba and Estel, on the question that I brought up.
I think what V and Leoba are talking about is the general and theoretical power of an admin. Yes, they can press all sorts of buttons, and you could call that power, and yes, you can never be hundred percent sure about people - so, yes, theoretically it's possible that tomorrow Griff deletes the whole messageboard because she feels like it. I just don't think it's very likely.
What I was talking about is the very regular, normal "power" of the admins here, and that, from what I have gathered so far, is exactly what Estel said, and what I also tried to say previously: the admins press buttons only according to the rules of the board (ie, for example, deleting invite threads) and in agreement with the decisions of the posters.
Thus, I'd also say that a case like I described, locking a thread because a conflict seemed to escalate, would be overstepping your powers. (In such a case, from the way I understand the procedures discussed here, I think the admin would have to contact the people involved and ask them to "take it outside". This is if the posters involved are long-standing members - we were discussing short shrift for trolls.)
So, although of course you could say an admin has power in a general sense of the word, when it comes to everyday processes, I think there is no decision-making power.
Ber once defined admin-power saying: it's like being the bank in a board game. I like that definition, and I'd hope we could keep it that way here.
Like lidless said, it does take some advance on trust in people.
Which leads me to the more general discussion Ethel started. (I really hope this does not come across as flaming! Honest, I mean it nicely!
)
I quite agree that in real life - and hence probably also in virtual communities - the kind of community we are having here is bound to fail.
I think Imp has it right: this is like one of those idealist groups of the 60s and it's a model that only works in small communities.
I have no idea what will happen once we open up or become a larger community.
The point is, for me, even if the experiment has failed a hundred times before - I just want to try it yet once more.
I don't like the idea of giving up on an ideal just because it usually fails. It's like giving up pre-emptively, and I don't like that idea.
This is not because of TORC - it has to do with my general attitude towards authority. I guess it's just a personal thing. I can't stand authority to be felt and seen.
I'll try to explain, but I'm not sure if I'll manage.
If I had found that Jane Austen messageboard you mentioned, Ethel, and had just seen it's friendly and clever, I might have joined and liked it.
Now, that I know someone runs it with "iron fist", there's no way I'd feel tempted to go there.
I don't know if I can explain that.
I was blissfully happy on TORC for very long, not even
knowing there was such a thing as authority there.
And, yes, now I realize that for a great part my time there only was so peaceful because the mods kept the trolls away.
But that's what we want for here, too. We do want to remove trolls quickly and efficiently.
The rest of the friendly atmosphere on TORC, however, I think was mainly thanks to the friendly nature of the posters, not thanks to the rules or rule-enforcement. I'm pretty sure that the people I most liked posting with there would also behave decently in a surrounding without firm rules and a police force.
Maybe I'm just naive and everybody is really a jerk who only behaves themselves as long as they are driven to do so by forces from outside - but I simply refuse to believe that.
What my hopes for this place are is that we have started with a group of people who are willing and able to behave themselves in a decent fashion towards the other members simply because that's the way they like it, not because they face some consequences if they misbehave.
This, I hope, sets a tone, an atmosphere, for the whole board, which will draw only like-minded people.
And because of that it should be possible to have a community of people who all feel like that, who all are decent because they want to be, not because they know that if they aren't someone will swoop down on them and punish them.
I'm not at all sure whether I'm just babbling here, or getting anything across.
I like this board working by invitation, and I think the greatest danger will come from opening up to the general public.
But we are trying to establish ourselves in such a way that we can handle this, and so that we have some emergency plan if things go wrong - this is what is being discussed at the moment - so, although I'm skeptical about the chances of success, I'm curious to try it.
I have no problem at all with some sort of authority that gets rid of trolls, and any other forms of disruption that clearly are nothing but trouble for the sake of trouble. I think something like that is necessary.
But I also think people can live peacefully together without authority hovering over them, reminding them that there are rules to obey.
So, I think it's worth a try to see what happens if you leave these people - who are bound to have conflicts in spite of all good intentions - to work out their problems in a spirit of responsibility.
Some people just like being guided, they prefer not having to think for themselves and relying on a police-force to come and collect those who misbehave, even if that means themselves. I actually think most people in the world are like that. That's why the "iron fist" management style Ethel mentioned is so successful.
I'm the opposite to that, though, and I'm under the impression that this goes for most people here. And that's why I think we just have to try our way.
Like I said to Squiddy in a chat once, when she showed me the "Admin Zone" messageboard, and I saw a discussion about keeping your members "in line": I prefer to keep myself in line, thanks very much!
So, as I said earlier, for me, this has nothing to do with TORC having disappointed me or so - it's just a personal thing I have with authority. I don't like the feeling that someone is keeping me in line.
Whether it first was created thanks to the mods or the TOS I can't tell - but TORC I think has a friendly atmosphere that draws friendly people. Once you have that atmosphere underway, I believe there's not much policing necessary.
I hope that here we can set up just such a friendly atmosphere, and that this will perpetuate itself automatically.
We'll try to come up with a way to deal with trolls, but apart from that, we'll rely on the common sense of our members.
And (as Lady Macbeth said
) if we fail - we fail. (And probably just switch to an ordinarily policed and modded board pronto.)
Edit: reading this I realise that what I want is something like the Shire
: it's good to have the Rangers keep the enemies from outside away, but within the Shire, government isn't necessary and the Shirriffs aren't a serious police force. People managed themselves - but the Shire remained a closed community (which is probably why I like this to be a closed community). So, I say, let's have a Shire, and let's see what happens if it opens up.