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PostPosted: Fri 30 Jan , 2009 11:36 pm 
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Should we start a yahoo group for the purposes of deliberations?

If yes, is there anyone that's done that before and wants to set it up?

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PostPosted: Sat 31 Jan , 2009 12:00 am 
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Go for it Marco

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PostPosted: Sat 31 Jan , 2009 12:04 am 
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the deliberations would be starting yet, would they?

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PostPosted: Sat 31 Jan , 2009 12:37 am 
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Before any deliberations begin:

Does Hal have any witnesses he wishes to call?

Does the Jury wish to call on any of the witnesses who volunteered?

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PostPosted: Sat 31 Jan , 2009 12:51 am 
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Well I at least was contacted by a member who answered the questions in the list and who said they were willing to be called as a witness. I don't know yet if other Jurors were contacted. If we wish to call that member (or any others who answered) we should decide promptly. I did say to the member who contacted me that I would get back to them to confirm if they still were OK with being called.
I presume anyone who did say they accepted being a witness may have more things to say than were on Estel's list or may wish to give more detailed reasons for their response.

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PostPosted: Sat 31 Jan , 2009 2:32 am 
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I don't feel the need to call any witnesses, although both hal and the Rangers have the right to do so if they desire.

----------------------------------------------------

I have a question for hal and for each of the Rangers:

How would you define "objectionable"?

I don't want to get mired in a debate on semantics, so please no commenting on each others' answers. You can address that later if you feel the need.

----------------------------------------------------

As for deliberations, I have an idea.

Sometimes I'll get curious as to how something is done, and I'll go do it just to find out. I was thinking that a private message board with membership restricted to the jurors and the loremaster would be ideal depending on how much trouble it was to set up. So to find out, Iwent and set one up.

What I'm trying to say is, I got this message board I ain't using if you wanna go do it there. If so, let me know and I'll PM the details.
If not, that's okay too.

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PostPosted: Sat 31 Jan , 2009 3:01 am 
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Quote:
How would you define "objectionable"?


In the content of this discussion I would have to define "objectionable" as someone posting something that the vast majority of the membership would have a difficult time seeing on their messageboard.
Examples would be pornographic material in places other than TOE, violent pictures, bigotry or anything that upsets the masses to the point that it disrupts the majority of the board.

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PostPosted: Sat 31 Jan , 2009 3:02 am 
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Definitions of objectionable. If lots of people are complaining, it's objectionable.

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PostPosted: Sat 31 Jan , 2009 3:06 am 
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Angbasdil wrote:
I have a question for hal and for each of the Rangers:

How would you define "objectionable"?

Well, anything that causes objections. :P But seriously, if people are offended by it, then I would call it objectionable. Posts that are obnoxious, repetitive, and generally offensive I would call objectionable.

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PostPosted: Sat 31 Jan , 2009 9:09 am 
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I define "objectionable" as something that is not an idea put forth for debate, but is offensive, and meant to disturb people in a way that is universally seen as wrong or inappropriate. Pornography is the obvious example. Hate speech is another.

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PostPosted: Sat 31 Jan , 2009 11:13 am 
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Ang - can you PM the info to me :)

A messageboard sounds ideal for deliberations :)

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PostPosted: Sat 31 Jan , 2009 11:43 am 
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I'll discuss things wherever other people are happy to.

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PostPosted: Sat 31 Jan , 2009 1:56 pm 
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Likewise. The messageboard idea sounds good.

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PostPosted: Sat 31 Jan , 2009 5:01 pm 
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Looks like we have a quorum of jurors. I'll take that as a go and PM everybody.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Lurker,

I have no further questions at this time. If the rest of the jurors are likewise ready, I guess we're ready to move to the next step, whatever that is. I know the Ranger and hal both have the opportunity to call witnesses, and hal gets to present a defense, but I'm not sure in what order that should happen. I do think that hal, as the "defendant", should get the last word, but that's just my opinion.

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PostPosted: Sun 01 Feb , 2009 1:06 am 
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Holby, River, and I have no intention of calling witnesses. :)

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PostPosted: Sun 01 Feb , 2009 1:56 pm 
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I don't have any witnesses to call, but I do have a major concern.

Because of the chaotic nature of this hearing, and the fact that the charges against me were brought by a juror, rather than the accusers, I'm a bit confused about whether I've been able to defend myself appropriately.

I am satisfied with my defense against River's evidence for the original "charges" brought by the rangers. However, no case has been made for the charges Estel posted that was then adopted by the rangers as the "official charges." All that has been done is that questions were asked about all of those charges. I have no real idea how I am supposed to defend myself against such a vague approach to what I have supposedly done wrong.

I do not see the answers to the questions Estel posed as evidence of my breaking the proposed by-laws, so I'm not sure what argument I should make to counter the sentiments they may or may not have brought about.

I guess, what I'm saying, is that if this were a court, I would be asking the judge to dismiss everything as the prosecution has utterly failed to make their case. As this is not a court, that doesn't really make sense, but given the prevailing sentiment among board members towards me, I worry the jury will feel the need to impose some sort of penalty towards me, even if the evidence is entirely lacking. I fear this was the case in the first hearing I had here, and wish I had presented such an argument at the time then.

I'm not sure what should be done at this point, but I would like to make a final argument against a clear set of accusations and evidence, if such a thing is possible.

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PostPosted: Sun 01 Feb , 2009 2:04 pm 
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halplm wrote:
Because of the chaotic nature of this hearing, and the fact that the charges against me were brought by a juror, rather than the accusers, .


From earlier:
Lurker wrote:
No, I read what the Rangers have posted and compared it to what Estel just presented, I don't see anything wrong with it.
Angbasdil wrote:
hal,
Estel's post was not after-the-fact accusations, just clarification as to which particular parts of the charter were pertinent to the original accusations. Just because Estel was clearer in how she said it doesn't nullify the fact that it was said before.

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PostPosted: Sun 01 Feb , 2009 2:07 pm 
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Enough of the back and forth in this thread.
Any further posts will be removed.

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PostPosted: Sun 01 Feb , 2009 2:07 pm 
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Either the charges were fine before Estel posted, or they weren't.

If they were, then Estel's clarification was irrelevant, and all her questions and the subsequent answers should be considered in that regard.

If they weren't, then the accurate charges were outlined by a juror, after the rangers could not do so before or after restricting my posting rights.

Either way, it's relevant to how I'm supposed to present my defense.

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PostPosted: Sun 01 Feb , 2009 2:08 pm 
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Holbytla wrote:
Enough of the back and forth in this thread.
Any further posts will be removed.


Bullshit, you have no say in how this hearing goes forward.

I ask that Holbytla be prevented from posting here in the future.

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