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Opening Board77 - the last decision we'll take

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Should we open the board now?
Keep it "invite only", but approve everyone who registers
  
3% [ 1 ]
Yes. Open it to everyone - even people who'll just troll
  
6% [ 2 ]
Let it wait 2-3 days, but open it
  
0% [ 0 ]
Let it wait 2-3 weeks, but open it
  
6% [ 2 ]
Keep it closed, but shorten the invite process
  
52% [ 17 ]
No Change. Keep it as it is now.
  
33% [ 11 ]
Total votes: 33
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Farawen
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Posted: Thu 03 Mar , 2005 3:51 pm
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So let's see if we can come up with another way of keeping those out who we don't want on here?


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Leoba
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Posted: Thu 03 Mar , 2005 3:51 pm
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It's not a perfect system, but I don't think we can cope with being open yet. Invites remain a necessary unpleasantry whilst we stabilise ourselves.

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Farawen
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Posted: Thu 03 Mar , 2005 3:54 pm
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Actually, Leoba, my point was to stop the invite process completely whilst and in order to stabilize ourselves. Our focus of attention is all over the place, and I don't see how it does us any good.


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Rodia
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Posted: Thu 03 Mar , 2005 3:56 pm
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Yeah it is drastic...I meant it to be...though I should have made it more clear that this is not what I think is happening- only what we risk at the most extreme. Of course no one here is a fascist and the above list is a bit ridiculous, but I think it's something to consider.
Because in the end, what causes me to vote 'yes' or 'no'...impressions. Once I am given the power to judge a person, my impressions of them are like little threads that root out...I start weighing everything I know, feel, think about that person... I don't quite know how to explain what I mean, I just don't think this approval system is fair. It doesn't as much rely on the person's true worth as on the voters' willingness to consider it. I feel very uncomfortable deciding whether someone is to be given a chance to exist among other people.

And you're right, Fara...we missed the exit. This place used to be like a private IM group convo, but now...I can't remember whether I've talked about people who are present here now in threads that are still visible before they arrived. I might have. There's the whole nasty mocking of butterfly huggles for example. What if a friend of the huggler arrives, or has arrived? We wouldn't have mocked if we knew they would be present.

We have to stop acting like this is an IM session, I think...for everyone's benefit.

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Leoba
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Posted: Thu 03 Mar , 2005 3:59 pm
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Farawen wrote:
Actually, Leoba, my point was to stop the invite process completely whilst and in order to stabilize ourselves. Our focus of attention is all over the place, and I don't see how it does us any good.
I don't disagree with that Farawen.

My previous post was in reponse to the page before, not to your post directly above mine which I hadn't seen.

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halplm
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Posted: Thu 03 Mar , 2005 4:13 pm
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I agree we're kind of going nuts right now, but I see several people that I KNOW would be welcomed, and great peopel to have. They are in just as much pain as some of us over what's going on on TORC, and they have no place to discuss it.

I'd like them to get here. I sort of blame myself, because I would have gotten around to setting up invites for them and such, but I've not paid much attention to the invite forum until recently... perhaps that's the case for others as well?

Then again those people would probably understand if we shut down our invites for a while...

We need a good way of saying "You're going to be welcomed here with open arms, but we can't handle adding a bunch of people at the moment." Also, it needs to explain how "we want to be our own community, but right now we have very close ties to TORC, and we're trying to sort all of that out with the mess that TORC has been to some of us recently."

I don't know if it needs the origin of B77, but we can't deny our close ties to TORC, even if we move past them in the future. People want to know what we are and have been. They want to know WHAT our ties to TORC are, and why we're different.

I don't think we should ignore the past, but should embrace it. It's what MADE this place, and that's fine. It just needs to be understood that it's not what DRIVES this place.

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Nin
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Posted: Thu 03 Mar , 2005 5:02 pm
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Farawen, you make some very good points there. Like you, I feel overwhelmed with the invite process recently. Too many thread - too many people. I have seen one or two threads on TORC and thought : Wow, this person should be invited (for instance Amrunelen) - but for the moment I would not do it.

The first new-comers were really voted in - based on mutual knowledge and trust, now , at least for me, it's on hearsay. I also agree with Leoba, that the process is hurtful or can be.

However, I don't think that the boards should open in the state in which they are now. I like the idea of deadlines... for the main gouvernance issues. I like the idea that each new member after joining should be mentored for a while. I even like the idea that there should be more rules...

So I think the most important idea is to make the board solid. And if it means to freeze the invitations for a while - I can live with it easily. The energy not spent on invitations could be spent on gouvernance issues - so much more important.

Just MHO.

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halplm
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Posted: Thu 03 Mar , 2005 5:22 pm
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Ok, here's the problem. I don't think anyone around here wants a truly "open" forum such as AICN... which gets overrun with trolls and idiots.

If we just throw open the forums and then deal with the troublemakers, it causes way more pain for the admins than any of us want to inflict (well maybe some of us ;) ). However, if we stay "Invite only, majority decides" then we'll never get anyone new, or, we'll reach a point where most people don't know the invitees, which makes voting pointless.

So what about this:

Invite Only, wait a couple of days for any objections, then they're in. No vote, give some time in case someone has a major case against that person. If someone has a problem with an invite, deal with it on a case by case basis.

Some of the votes for people now are getting silly. Yes, we'll want these people, but some people seem to be voting "yes" when they really should say "don't know them"

I don't know... It seems like there should be some way to facilitate easy entry but still make it "by invitation." That's also not to say someone couldn't request a membership either, but that's like an "application" or something... I'm just thinking out lout here... I don't think that would actually work...

I guess my main point is, the tag "invitation only" doesn't need to be negative. The tag of "voted in or out" is inherently negative... if you're not invited.

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Rodia
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Posted: Thu 03 Mar , 2005 5:47 pm
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Good points there hal, especially about the negative/positive aspect of invitations.

I always thought the best way for this board would be:
-anyone can register, but all registrations must be approved by current admins before the person can post. If it's a TORCer, we must know for sure which one it is, and this ought to be part of the registration form. If it's (shock horror) some outsider, they must give their reasons for wanting to join, or be sponsored by one of us. This way the admin's approval wouldn't really substitute for the democratic vote- it would just be a way to get rid of trolls and imposters right at the door. There would be no alternative to voting- we would just accept anyone who wasn't openly hostile.

Whether the boards are viewable to all or only members is another issue.

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Axordil
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Posted: Thu 03 Mar , 2005 5:48 pm
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This is one week for this poll. Do we have a consensus yet? If we are going to shorten the invite period, how much shorter do we want to go?

My gut tells me two days off the poll, but that's just viscera talking. :D

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halplm
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Posted: Thu 03 Mar , 2005 5:52 pm
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I like that Rodia, as the end result, although the details would need to be worked out...

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Rodia
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Posted: Thu 03 Mar , 2005 5:55 pm
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Oh, of course.:)

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Axordil
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Posted: Thu 03 Mar , 2005 6:01 pm
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I think TORCers should have the same rules applied to them as non-TORCers.

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Farawen
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Posted: Thu 03 Mar , 2005 6:05 pm
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I agree with Ax.


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Rodia
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Posted: Thu 03 Mar , 2005 6:06 pm
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I suggested extra demands such as an explanation and/or sponsorship for non-TORCers so that we could quickly recognise trolls and TORCers trying to come in anonymously. It doesn't mean they're voted on while TORCers are not, it'd just either let us know that someone here knows who they are, and if no one does, they have a reason to join us. It doesn't have to be more than 'I think you're an interesting bunch'- a troll won't write as much.

It would only mean that in the registration form there would be this question:

"If you are a TORCer, what is your identity there?"

I guess we can ask all candidates to give a brief reason for wanting to join, though.

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Axordil
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Posted: Thu 03 Mar , 2005 6:09 pm
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I think TORCers should have sponsors. And/or an explanation. Then the vote. Having been on TORC should be irrelevant, save as a frame of reference we have to consider the membership.

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Farawen
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Posted: Thu 03 Mar , 2005 6:11 pm
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See, the thing is... once we've figured out how to deal with the trolly type "from the inside", we don't have to fry our brains over how to make the invite process work because there won't be need for invites any longer.

Thus I propose: Let's freeze all invites, set up a Troll Patrol and some related basics, and then open the damn doors to all and their monkey.

Should I... maybe... start a poll on that? Or should we vote on starting a poll first? ;) :D


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Rodia
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Posted: Thu 03 Mar , 2005 6:15 pm
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Ax, isn't that how we do it now, exactly? :P

I want a system where we're open to all, but one that prevents people from pretending to be other people. It's inevitable that we'll get a lot of people from TORC and I want to be sure they're who they say they are.

This needs work... :scratch

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MariaHobbit
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Posted: Thu 03 Mar , 2005 8:29 pm
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What's wrong with just a max number on the number of new invite threads per day?

That would create a bottleneck and slow the number of invites down to an easier number to keep up with. That's the way I thought it was at first, but then someone assured me that it wasn't. Seemed like a good idea, though.


On the other hand, throwing the doors open would let in those who are currently getting voted "no" on.

I don't know. You folks change things too fast around here.

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Axordil
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Posted: Thu 03 Mar , 2005 8:36 pm
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Ro--

More or less, yes. I'm happy with a faster version of the status quo.

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