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Lily Rose
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Posted: Wed 29 Nov , 2006 10:57 pm
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Ouch... All that I did was start a thread asking for volunteers. I'm starting to feel like I've done something wrong... :(

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Elian
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Posted: Thu 30 Nov , 2006 12:02 am
Let the dice fly.
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Lily, don't feel bad. :) The thread worked out perfectly for its purpose...you got new Ranger volunteers, after all. The other issues here existed without the thread...plus, I don't think anyone's really upset or anything. I hope not, anyhow.

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Holbytla
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Posted: Thu 30 Nov , 2006 12:16 am
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Elian wrote:
Indeed, Lily. :)


Rangering itself is of course not political, nor does it in itself have anything to do with likes and dislikes when the job is done properly, which I believe it always has been. Nor did I imply otherwise. However, people by their very nature are political and very involved in likes and dislikes...therefore, when depending upon these people to uphold your system, these things are going to come into consideration. I was simply pointing out (besides the immense, overwhelming apathy that comes when nothing is asked of people) a slight flaw in that system.
Elian come on. I am mostly stupid but not completely stupid. I know too well what tree you are barking up.

Are you trying to tell me that the apathy stems from not being asked?
Kidding right?
You have had many chances to volunteer in many capacities. You have had many opportunities to get involved. Did you ever? Ever?
And yet that is the fault of people for not asking?
I think not. I can understand how you would feel uncomfortable with me being a ranger for any length of time or at all. The solution is to actually volunteer for something, so idiots like me won't have to.
All this other garbage about likes and dislikes and political agendas is just that. Garbage.
Rangers affect nothing and can do nothing on their own. NOTHING!
Other than change ranks, admit people into ToE and get rid of spambots. There is nothing a ranger can do or even fail to uphold the system without being called on it. Nothing. If you don't like certain rangers then do something about it. There are ways to contest ranger decisions.


Borry you can't compare TORC to b77.
The power lies with the people here. The board was intentionally set up that way, even to include a jury of peers. There are more articles restricting rangers than anything else.

And for the last time, no ranger wanted to over stay their welcome.
So anyone that wants to bitch about it can volunteer to do something.

Lily you did the right thing.
This has nothing to do with you.
Just someone's agenda. :roll:

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Elian
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Posted: Thu 30 Nov , 2006 1:22 am
Let the dice fly.
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Holby, you're twisting my words. I said:
Me wrote:
Rangering itself is of course not political, nor does it in itself have anything to do with likes and dislikes when the job is done properly, which I believe it always has been. Nor did I imply otherwise.
Nothing in this quote equals me saying that any Ranger has done, could do, or wanted to do anything inappropriate or, in fact, anything that I didn't agree with. This has nothing to do with what powers the Rangers have. The only thing it has to do with, at all, is the term limits.

Apathy indeed seems to have come in this case from not being asked...within hours of this thread being created, you had several volunteers, no? Of which, might I remind you, I am one, so...thanks, but your agument isn't getting off the ground with me.

I believe you were specifically asked by another Ranger to fill the position. Had I ever been gotten such a request I would have responded the same way.

In any case, nowhere in the charter does it say, I'm fairly certain, that one only has a right to an opinion if they've volunteered or been a Ranger themselves. To me, that makes your argument, as you would so eloquently put it, garbage.

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Holbytla
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Posted: Thu 30 Nov , 2006 1:45 am
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How many different ways does one need to be asked?
How many announcements or stickies does it take?
The fact that people want to try and hold onto the lame excuse of not being asked is silly.
There are threads everywhere about these types of things and multiple ways of getting in touch.
I was asked to be a ranger again because nobody else wanted the job.
No volunteer could be found. Blaming others for your apathy is crap.

And you also wrote:
Quote:
However, people by their very nature are political and very involved in likes and dislikes...therefore, when depending upon these people to uphold your system, these things are going to come into consideration. I was simply pointing out (besides the immense, overwhelming apathy that comes when nothing is asked of people) a slight flaw in that system.
So tell me what the considerations are other than finding someone to be the janitor?
Petty differences?
Choosing sides?
Blind loyalty?

edit:
And of course everyone is entitled to an opinion.
To sit and bitch about what others do and don't do while never lifting a finger yourself carries zero weight.

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TheMary
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Posted: Thu 30 Nov , 2006 2:41 am
I took the stars from my eyes, and then I made a map, And knew that somehow I could find my way back; Then I heard your heart beating, you were in the darkness too - So I stayed in the darkness with you
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This thread is only asking for volunteers please don't scare people away with outside conversation debating certain attitudes. Feel free to start another thread and discuss away.

Lily this thread needed to be made and I thank you for starting it :) :hug:

No one is pointing fingers here (except when a specific person is named) lets all keep our heads and not assume that "you" are the one in question :).


So, uh, how do I move the unwanted posts? :blackeye: :oops: Six months and now y'all want to start in on me?! :P

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Elian
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Posted: Thu 30 Nov , 2006 2:44 am
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Quote:
How many different ways does one need to be asked?
How many announcements or stickies does it take?
Let's see...I'd say it takes one. See the entire rest of this thread. Hate to tell you, but the majority of posters have probly forgotten there are any forums way down there at the bottom of the page. Posting this thead in Turf was a brilliant idea and worked wonderfully...honestly, I don't know what the hell we're both bitching about, but hey. I'm game.
Quote:
I was asked to be a ranger again because nobody else wanted the job.
No volunteer could be found. Blaming others for your apathy is crap.
*shrug* For all I know, no one was asked before you were, thereby negating that opinion.

I understand that it's frustrating to go to the list and have it be totally out of date with no new volunteers. But look at this...as soon as a request was posted you had new volunteers. Is it such a crime that you have to give people a nudge every once in a while?

Maybe people who haven't previously volunteered don't want to have to sit through a lecture on how much they suck for not having done so before.
Quote:
So tell me what the considerations are other than finding someone to be the janitor?
Petty differences?
Choosing sides?
Blind loyalty?
I'm...not even discussing this. This is not what I meant by that quote, and I have stated what I did mean. Please stop attempting to twist my words.

For the last time, the only problem I had with anything you originally said was that I believe there should be term limits on Rangers, because others might not feel comfortable asking/reminding them to resign. I know damn well I didn't feel comfortable asking you to do so, because I feared this exact kind of response from you. So you're damn right, this is a personal agenda. You're welcome to think my opinion carries no weight, and I wouldn't expect it to with you, but it carries some with me, and I'd like to think that, it not being entirely off base, it might carry some with other members as well.

edit: Sorry TM...cross posted!

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yovargas
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Posted: Thu 30 Nov , 2006 2:52 am
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Quote:
For the last time, the only problem I had with anything you originally said was that I believe there should be term limits on Rangers, because others might not feel comfortable asking/reminding them to resign.
Why would you, or anyone, care about a Ranger resigning or being replaced? I so don't get that. Rangers do almost nothing but change ranks and kill bots. What could it possibly matter if they stay on for 5 years?

Maybe we're just getting stuck on the term Ranger. Maybe we should change the name to Rank-changers. Maybe then we'd see how silly it is to argue about this.

Person X: "Hey, I'm tired of being a Rank-changers. Anybody else wanna do it?
Person Y: "Sure!"

It's as simple as that. What's the problem?


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TheMary
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Posted: Thu 30 Nov , 2006 2:57 am
I took the stars from my eyes, and then I made a map, And knew that somehow I could find my way back; Then I heard your heart beating, you were in the darkness too - So I stayed in the darkness with you
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I'm sorry am I invisible because I'm pretty sure I asked nicely :neutral:

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Lay down
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Night is falling
You’ve come to journey's end
Sleep now
And dream of the ones who came before
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Why do you weep?
What are these tears upon your face?
Soon you will see
All of your fears will pass away
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LalaithUrwen
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Posted: Thu 30 Nov , 2006 3:01 am
The Grey Amaretto as Supermega-awesome Proud Heretic Girl
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TheMary wrote:

So, uh, how do I move the unwanted posts? :blackeye: :oops: Six months and now y'all want to start in on me?! :P
You should have the option to split the topic in your mod status on your screen where you have "lock," "sticky," etc. You can manually select which posts you want to move, and there's another way to do it if you need to move huge chunks of the thread. I don't quite remember it all right now from memory.

I'm not sure what the fuss is about. I'm glad the thread was posted here. I don't often get to the other forums, so it only makes sense to post some important announcement or request in the forum that is getting the most traffic. I'm sorry to be lazy about checking the other forums, but that is RL intruding on internet time.

I think what you guys have done makes sense with the way the board has changed over the year(s).

:cheers:

And I'm on board with whatever you need me to do whenever you need me to do it, as I've already said, and it looks like you've gotten many others to volunteer as well. Mission accomplished.


Lali

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Sidonzo
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Posted: Thu 30 Nov , 2006 3:32 am
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I volunteer to be a Ranger whenever you need me!

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Holbytla
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Posted: Thu 30 Nov , 2006 3:33 am
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TheMary wrote:
This thread is only asking for volunteers please don't scare people away with outside conversation debating certain attitudes. Feel free to start another thread and discuss away.

Lily this thread needed to be made and I thank you for starting it :) :hug:

No one is pointing fingers here (except when a specific person is named) lets all keep our heads and not assume that "you" are the one in question :).


So, uh, how do I move the unwanted posts? :blackeye: :oops: Six months and now y'all want to start in on me?! :P
It is in the ranger handbook under splitting posts. :P

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TheMary
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Posted: Thu 30 Nov , 2006 3:33 am
I took the stars from my eyes, and then I made a map, And knew that somehow I could find my way back; Then I heard your heart beating, you were in the darkness too - So I stayed in the darkness with you
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Ooooh my Mommy voice convinced Sid to volunteer :D

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Lay down
Your sweet and weary head
Night is falling
You’ve come to journey's end
Sleep now
And dream of the ones who came before
They are calling
From across the distant shore

Why do you weep?
What are these tears upon your face?
Soon you will see
All of your fears will pass away
Safe in my arms
You're only sleeping


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Sidonzo
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Posted: Thu 30 Nov , 2006 3:34 am
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Now do I get to hear your sexy voice?


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Eruname
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Posted: Thu 30 Nov , 2006 11:52 pm
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Elian wrote:
the only problem I had with anything you originally said was that I believe there should be term limits on Rangers, because others might not feel comfortable asking/reminding them to resign. I know damn well I didn't feel comfortable asking you to do so, because I feared this exact kind of response from you.
Ditto.

.
.
.

No Ranger has done anything wrong or overstepped their bounds, but I feel fairly uncomfortable with anyone serving for too long. While they may only mostly change ranks, they do have power when it comes right down to it. Maybe it's because of TORC history that I feel too uncomfortable with people having power too long. All I do know is that it feels so much nicer when we have people switching off every 3-4 months. Having a definate term limit and an order of people who are ready to be next gets rid of any possible personal drama. Much better for the board and people here as no one needs more drama.


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tinwe
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Posted: Fri 01 Dec , 2006 12:23 am
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Holby and Alatar are gone. TheMary and I will be leaving at the end of December. The only reason we are staying on for now is too stagger the terms and not have all new Rangers at once. I apologize for not leaving sooner. It was never my intention to stay on forever.

As for term limits - officially nothing has changed. Although we try not to talk about it too much, the fact is the Charter is still in effect and the Ranger terms are still set at three months. The system hasn’t changed, but what has changed is how the system works. It was designed to function through a facilitator - the Mayor. That person was responsible for seeking volunteers for the pool, contacting people from the pool and scheduling the terms for new Rangers.

When the Mayor resigned it was decided, by general consensus more than anything else, that we no longer needed a Mayor and that the Rangers could find their own replacements. That clearly didn’t work. But, that’s what we are left with now, unless someone else wants to volunteer to be Mayor, or until we vote in a new system. I don’t want to go to either of those places. So, come the end of December we will find two people to take our places.

In the meantime, the Rangers are trying to update the Ranger Pool thread in the Michel Delving forum as much as possible. I have contacted everybody on the list and asked if they want to be on the list or not. I have heard from most of them and have edited the list appropriately. Several of them, sadly, have not been around for some time, so if we don’t hear from them soon we will take their name off the list too. We are also going to add the names of the people who have volunteered in this thread to that list. That is following the system as closely as we can under the circumstances. We will probably, however give priority to people who haven’t served before when it comes time to pick new ones.

For those people who have volunteered here - we need to know what time-zone you live in and what your native language is (if it’s not English) so we can put that information on the list.

Thanks.

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Estel
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Posted: Fri 01 Dec , 2006 12:24 am
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erm.....






So anyway, I'll volunteer to be a Ranger again once Steve and I are actually situated in a house rather than a hotel and have internet in said house.

Thats all :cheers:


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The OG Borry
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Posted: Fri 01 Dec , 2006 12:37 am
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West coast for me i think its like -6 or -7 and all i know is english.
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Elian
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Posted: Fri 01 Dec , 2006 12:40 am
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Tinwe, I'm in Central US time. :)

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Jude
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Posted: Fri 01 Dec , 2006 12:45 am
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I live in - um - whatever the time zone that Ottawa is in is called.

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