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More questions for spanish-speakers (no translations)

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Impenitent
Post subject: More questions for spanish-speakers (no translations)
Posted: Mon 09 Feb , 2009 2:03 am
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So.

I'm going to carry through on my life-long (almost) desire to learn to speak Spanish. As I can't afford a tutor at this stage (although if I progress as I hope I will try to find a conversation class where I can practice "live" and get feedback on my accent - which is actually pretty good. I've spoken enough languages in my life that I've got an excellent ear for pronunciation.) I'm going to try one of those downloadable Spanish courses.

I hit a small snag, already though. What is the difference between the Spanish (Castilian) spoken in Spain and that spoken in Latin America? Is it a matter of accent, or does the vocabulary vary? I don't mean just idiom, I mean - are there real differences?

And how different is Castilian from Catalan, which I know is more greatly influenced by Latin - but is it so very different? Can a person who speaks Castilian understand someone who speaks Catalan?

All assistance gratefully received.

:D

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LalaithUrwen
Post subject: Re: More questions for spanish-speakers (no translations)
Posted: Mon 09 Feb , 2009 3:09 am
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I can't answer all of the questions, but I can recommend Rosetta Stone. It seems to be a very good system.

I do believe Latin American and Castilian Spanish have some significant differences. Living here in the US, it makes sense for us to learn Latin American Spanish. I don't know which would make more sense for you to learn.

My two cents. :)

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yovargas
Post subject: Re: More questions for spanish-speakers (no translations)
Posted: Mon 09 Feb , 2009 3:59 am
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I don't really know beyond that people from Spain sound like weirdos so you should definitely stick with Latin spanish. :razz:

(Without really knowing, I'd bet it's not terribly unlike American English vs British English.)


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Impenitent
Post subject: Re: More questions for spanish-speakers (no translations)
Posted: Mon 09 Feb , 2009 4:05 am
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:D Yov! so, the Spanish spoken by Spaniards is...weird?! :suspicious:

(I suspect there's going to be a bit of biffo when Ber comes in here! =:) )

But - if you can clarify - is it the vocabulary, the actual words used, or is it the pronunciation (ie of different letters), or is it accent that differs?

Lali, Rosetta Stone is recommended highly, but it is also extremely expensive. I've gone to a few review sites and they also recommend RocketSpanish.com as being very effective and excellent value for money. I'm still looking, though.

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yovargas
Post subject: Re: More questions for spanish-speakers (no translations)
Posted: Mon 09 Feb , 2009 4:12 am
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My exposure to Castillian is really very little, but there is this lisping thing that they do, sticking a "thh" sound into stuff, that to my ear sounds really bizarre. That sound doesn't exist in Latin Spanish. I don't really know if it's an accent thing or what but it's a very pronounced difference and when I've heard it it kinda makes me all :suspicious:.
(Nothing personal, Ber. :kiss: )


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LalaithUrwen
Post subject: Re: More questions for spanish-speakers (no translations)
Posted: Mon 09 Feb , 2009 4:16 am
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Yes, unfortunately, Rosetta Stone is expensive. :( Our library's website offered it for free for quite a while. I had Katie play around with it (Spanish and German), and I played around with it for Welsh. (Oh my gosh. What a hard language!)

Homeschool conventions are replete with foreign language programs. :D There's:

PowerGlide
http://www.power-glide.com/" target="_blank

Visual Link
http://www.visuallinklanguages.com/" target="_blank

And a dozen more (that are mostly Christian-based and geared for kids).


I'm sure you'll find something that works for you. :)

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elfshadow
Post subject: Re: More questions for spanish-speakers (no translations)
Posted: Mon 09 Feb , 2009 4:42 am
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As far as I know, there are only some basic vocabulary and grammatical differences between Latin and Castilian Spanish. For example, each dialect uses a different verb conjugation for the second person plural form. Latin Spanish speakers have one term, "ustedes", to refer to the both familiar and the formal form of the "you all" pronoun. Castilian Spanish speakers have two terms: "vosotros" is the familiar form and "ustedes" is the formal form. But as far as I know Latin and Castilian speakers have absolutely no trouble understanding each other. I think British vs. American English would probably be an apt comparison. But I'm sure Ber will be able to say much more on the subject than I can!


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LalaithUrwen
Post subject: Re: More questions for spanish-speakers (no translations)
Posted: Mon 09 Feb , 2009 4:47 am
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I'd like to add that I thought Spanish was relatively easy to learn, btw. It's nice and logical (as far as languages go). I loved learning it and still remember a fair bit of it (for not ever getting to speak it). (I only remember the present tense conjugation of verbs, though.)

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Berhael
Post subject: Re: More questions for spanish-speakers (no translations)
Posted: Mon 09 Feb , 2009 8:41 am
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Bravo Imp! :clap: I'm glad that you're pursuing your almost-life ambition. :)

yov is sadly mistaken. :P After all, the language is called Spanish, so surely what people from Spain speak is the correct version... ;) :D

Phonetically speaking, the comparison with British/American English is apt. American Spanish is softer and more sing-song; Castillian is more "cut-glass". The lisping sound yov mentions is, of course, the proper way to pronounce the letters c and z. ;) In Spain "z" is always pronounced "th" (as in "thin", not "the"), and the combinations "ce" and "ci" are pronounced the same (whereas ca, co and cu are pronounced "ka", "ko" and "ku"). We don't have a "buzzing" z sound like English.

Spanish pronunciation is pretty straightforward. There are only 5 vowels, and there are certain rules for pronouncing consonants that are quite easy to learn. Basically you pronounce every letter (with a few exceptions), as in Italian or Japanese.

Grammar-wise, it can be complicated, but if you know grammar already it should help. I've had problems teaching Spanish to English students who had no idea what a noun or direct object were. I find the lack of grammar skills is a severe obstacle for anyone wanting to learn a foreign language. :shrug:

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Berhael
Post subject: Re: More questions for spanish-speakers (no translations)
Posted: Mon 09 Feb , 2009 9:41 am
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As for Catalan: it's a different language, although I can read it and understand it (not speak it, although I know a few words). It's more influenced by French than Latin, though; apparently both French and Catalan share a common ancestor, Provencal (or langue d'oc). The accent is also slightly different from Castillian Spanish. Galician is another Romanesque language spoken in Spain, closer perhaps to Portuguese. And Basque has nothing to do with any other language (the latest research suggests that it's actually Iberian, the original language of the Peninsula's inhabitants before the arrival of the Romans).

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Impenitent
Post subject: Re: More questions for spanish-speakers (no translations)
Posted: Mon 09 Feb , 2009 10:27 am
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Actually, one of the first things I'm going to do is go buy a comprehensive English grammar book to brush up. Of course, I learnt grammar in high school, and my general love of English means that I have explored the structure of the language, but I'm pretty sure I've forgotten some of the grammatical forms. My understanding needs to be very firm about these in English first, before I try to figure them out in another language.

I'm going to a bookshop tomorrow for the English grammar text.

I am excited! :banana:

I also have a big favour to ask of Ber or Yov: I've got a link to a teaching site which provides the first lesson online - it has full audio which you just click to play. If I was to post the link, could you listen to a short bit of the lesson to tell me whether they are using the Latin American form or the Castilian form? I can't tell from what I heard today, but I'm sure both of you could. I don't want to proceed with this until I know what I'm proceeding with, if you know what I mean.

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Alatar
Post subject: Re: More questions for spanish-speakers (no translations)
Posted: Mon 09 Feb , 2009 11:44 am
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Impy, if you want to get access to the Spanish Rosetta Stone I have... sources...

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Berhael
Post subject: Re: More questions for spanish-speakers (no translations)
Posted: Mon 09 Feb , 2009 12:08 pm
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No problem Impy, just post the link and I'll have a stab at it. I'm pretty sure that it will be "international Spanish" - i.e. it will sound American to my ears and Castillian to yov's. ;)

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yovargas
Post subject: Re: More questions for spanish-speakers (no translations)
Posted: Mon 09 Feb , 2009 12:24 pm
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Berhael wrote:
Phonetically speaking, the comparison with British/American English is apt. American Spanish is softer and more sing-song; Castillian is more "cut-glass". The lisping sound yov mentions is, of course, the proper way to pronounce the letters c and z. ;) In Spain "z" is always pronounced "th" (as in "thin", not "the"), and the combinations "ce" and "ci" are pronounced the same (whereas ca, co and cu are pronounced "ka", "ko" and "ku"). We don't have a "buzzing" z sound like English.
Does American Spanish sound as weird to your ears as Castillian sounds to mine? :uhoh:


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Berhael
Post subject: Re: More questions for spanish-speakers (no translations)
Posted: Mon 09 Feb , 2009 12:46 pm
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Yes. :razz:

Actually, I think that many American Spanish accents are related to Canaries Spanish... it certainly sounds more "American" than "Peninsular" to me.

I think that my favourite American Spanish accent is Cuban.

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LalaithUrwen
Post subject: Re: More questions for spanish-speakers (no translations)
Posted: Mon 09 Feb , 2009 3:02 pm
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Hey, Alatar, got any sources for Rosetta Stone Irish Gaelic? (Yes, my oldest daughter has pretty much decided this is the foreign language she wants to learn for high school. :suspicious: I'm waiting to see if she changes her mind at all. I would like for her to learn Spanish, as it is the most practical thing for her to learn.)

The grammar issue is one reason my youngest daughter (with dyslexia) will probably have to learn American Sign Language as her foreign language.

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Alatar
Post subject: Re: More questions for spanish-speakers (no translations)
Posted: Mon 09 Feb , 2009 3:08 pm
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I can get you Irish Level 1?

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LalaithUrwen
Post subject: Re: More questions for spanish-speakers (no translations)
Posted: Mon 09 Feb , 2009 3:21 pm
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Hmmm, I'll PM you. :)

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Ara-anna
Post subject: Re: More questions for spanish-speakers (no translations)
Posted: Mon 09 Feb , 2009 3:35 pm
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They are both Spanish, but the Latin Spanish is much like American English.

That's about the best way I can explain it.


And FYI there are variations on the Spanish here in this part of the world. My friends Carlos and Maria are from Columbia and they speak Castilian Spanish. They say the other is Mexican Spanish and are very snobby about the fact they speak Castilian. They can understand both. Here in NW New Mexico the orginal land grant owners families speak Castilian, it was one of the things that surprised Carlos was it was different from that spoke in Mexico.

This is way I say the difference between the two is probably like the difference between American English and Kings English.

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Ara-anna
Post subject: Re: More questions for spanish-speakers (no translations)
Posted: Mon 09 Feb , 2009 3:40 pm
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oh and as Ber said Carlos said the sing-song was one of the things that stuck out to him the most here in the US. He said it wasn't only in Spanish, but he heard it in English and French speakers as well. He used to say it was more prominent in the US than we give credit for. He even said people in NYC had the sing-song tempo to their speaking, and he rather liked it.

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