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MaidenOfTheShieldarm
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Posted: Tue 29 Mar , 2005 8:57 pm
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But he's not a human. He's a hobbit. :P

Really, I don't think Frodo has a real tragic flaw. It doesn't seem to matter what species you are: Maia, Elf, Human, Hobbit. They're all tempted, and if they were exposed long enough, they'd try and claim it too. The only exception seems to be Tom Bombadil. Thus, I don't know that that's really a flaw like jealousy or pride or ambtion might be.

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halplm
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Posted: Tue 29 Mar , 2005 9:29 pm
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I think it is a bit of a commentary on the Christian concept of Sin.

Theoretically, you always have a choice, and could choose to never sin. No one that is not God can actually always make that choice. The temptation it too great. At some level it's not even temptation, it's just Human Nature.

Similarly, Frodo could not succeed, just as no one else good. His heroism was in getting as far as he did. His flaw was, as Queen_B said, his "humanity." This is not a flaw that makes him a "tragic hero," and I didn't ever really intend to say that, although I realize that's what I was answering when I made that first post. I was commenting more on what made him heroic, which was not sacrifice, but resistance to temptation as long as he was able.

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Queen_Beruthiel
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Posted: Tue 29 Mar , 2005 9:38 pm
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Terseness is my flaw. :)

Frodo has no individual, unique-to-himself flaw that I can see, unlike say, Shakespeare's tragic heroes. Tolkien did not create characters like that.

What I meant (I think ;) ) is that, in the eyes of his sub-creator, Frodo, like all the characters we actually meet, is like us, human and therefore fallen from some ideal which is not realisable in Arda Marred (which is, of course, this world).


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MaidenOfTheShieldarm
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Posted: Tue 29 Mar , 2005 9:45 pm
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Mea culpa. I misunderstood what you were saying. I agree with both of you. :)

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theduffster
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Posted: Tue 29 Mar , 2005 11:15 pm
Damn those Amish!!
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Thanks so much, guys.

I've given your ideas to her, she's going to mull them over. Still not sure what she will ultimately end up doing, though.

She hates reading, and this is torture for her. It's torture for me, to watch her glumly pick up the book, only to be distracted by something shiny a few minutes later! I badly want to discuss it with her, but must be oh so patient. Just as an idea of the HELL I've been going through with her, here's an actual conversation we had a month ago, at least:

Her: Mom, I've almost finished FOTR! Aren't you proud of me??
Me: Great! I loved the part when Gimli got offended because they wanted to blindfold him....
Her: Whoa! I haven't got that far yet! Way to give things away.
Me: I'm sorry, I thought you said you were almost done? What part are you at?
Her: Page three hundred and...
Me: What PART??
Her: The Council of uh, um, Elrond??

A month later, she's up to the White Rider chapter of TTT only.

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halplm
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Posted: Wed 30 Mar , 2005 1:31 pm
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I sympathise... I've been trying to get my Dad to read LOTR for oh, about 15 years now... He has started a few times... he LOVES the movies... but um... no, no interest in reading it...

And you wonder why I think the movies are a bad thing...

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Di of Long Cleeve
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Posted: Wed 30 Mar , 2005 2:13 pm
Frodo's girl through and through
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You know I have to say it, don't you Hal ... the movies are not a bad thing. :devil:

I'd be thrilled if my friend who loves the films gets round to reading the book one day and loves it as I do ... but it's not exactly a major issue in my life. :) There is more to my life than Tolkien, and to each their own. :)

That's funny about your daughter, Duff. :D

When I read LOTR for the first time, I simply couldn't put it down ... I used to read it until 3am!

Best read of my life. :love:

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Semprini
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Posted: Wed 30 Mar , 2005 5:34 pm
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Here are some subject ideas:

To compare Frodo and Sam with Don Quichotte and Sancho Panza
To explain why Frodo is the hero of LOTR and why Sam is not
To state the reasons why PJ did not get Frodo and favored Sam in his movie (this is related to Kushana's proposition)
To compare Frodo and Aragorn (the modern hero and the archetypal hero)
To Compare Frodo and Gollum (the hero and the anti-hero or negative double)
Etc...

But first, as Voronwe said, she should finish the book. There is no point in pondering on these questions without having read the book. It would be a waste of time. It is in the very last pages of the book that the fate of Frodo and Sam are revealed.


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