board77

I am currently (albeit taking my time) trying to read through this epic tome and seem to be coming to the conclusion that the copy I am reading is a rather awkward translation. The author uses phrases repeatedly and then uses other phrases that seem, well.. for no better way to say it.. rather 'modern'. (ex. unless Homer was the inventer of the phrase 'bit the dust'- which 'could' seem possible when someone falls dead off a chariot....)
What I would like to know for those of you who have read this book... are there different people who have translated it (in English ) and is there a given 'expert' translation??
(It would be rather sad to come away from reading such a classic thinking the writer Homer didn't have many literary skills, all because of poor translation!)


What say you?








oh... I should add, the copy I have is translated by Samuel Butler

crystal-seed,

There are many. This isn't my period and hopefully Kushana will speak up. I have Lattimore's (1951) and I think it is well respected and a couple of others. Fagle's is supposed to be OK too. I haven't read Butler. I have seen Alexander Pope's. Butler was from around 1900, so I'm surprised some phrases seem modern.

I'm going through the tedious process of painting 96 bookshelves and that group is in stacks on the floor, or I would look and offer an opinion. Sorry.

Each generation has its own translation of these classics, that's why they stay classics.

Quote:

He was always a great admirer of Homer (Butler's heroes were few, and included Shakespeare and Handel. Almost everyone else he despised), and towards the end of his life became convinced that the writing was that of a woman. He wrote a popular translation of The Iliad in 1898, another of The Odyssey in 1900, and before that a book called The Authoress of the Odyssey in 1897.

And an example
of Butler.
hhmmm....
ID- The phrase 'Bite the dust' seems modern but has it's origins in the mid 19C, at least according to the Slang dictionary. Perhaps they never read Butler's translation!! It became popular again in the 1980's, hence why it 'seems' modern. Words and phrases are recycled and reinvented all the time, much like fashion

Mummpizz- Being that Butler comes from a MUCH earlier generation, perhaps my trouble is a 'generation gap' in communication. I do not contest that fact that this piece is a classic (how arrogant THAT would be. ) I am merely curious about the translation and whether there are others out there that folks have found favorable.

In looking farther into it- Butler's name does seem to come up often in reference to translation of the Iliad and Odyssey. It may be a matter of literary taste (my own personal), it may also be a style of writing that , following the oral tradition, had repetitive phrasing that the listener, or reader could better relate to.
I am wondering though- the copy I have is written in typical novel story format and my husband mentioned that the German translation was phrased differently, more 'prosaic'? (somewhat, I imagine, written in a style like the link above- but I can't seem to find a German example. ) What style of translations have you come across? (To me, in reading a piece, this makes a world of difference.)

crystal_seed,

Someone gave me a beautifully leather bound Shakespeare printed around 1850. I didn't notice until much later that it was a "translation" into modern English.

I might unbury Homer tonight. I'll let you know what I've got.

crystal_seed,

I put another set back and found 1 Homer in the group. It's Butcher and Lang from 1890. Lattimore is much better, unless you have a penchant for Victorian excess. I'm sure there is another somewhere.


For Comparison :

In II.88,

Rieu: It is your own mother, that incomparable schemer, who is the culprit.

Butler: It is your mother's fault, not ours, for she is a very artful woman.

Fitzgerald: t is your own dear, incomparably cunning mother.

Rouse: Your own mother is at fault. You cannot find fault with us for paying court to your mother. She is a clever piece indeed!

Butcher & Lang: Behold the fault is not in the Achaean wooers, but in thine own mother, for she is the craftiest of women.

Palmer: [Y]our mother is to blame, whose craft exceeds all women's.

Mandlebaum: But be sure, if anyone's to blame, it's not the suitors but that supreme deceiver - your dear mother.

Cook: No, it is your dear mother, who knows advantage well.

Lattimore: But it is your own dear mother, and she is greatly resourceful.

Murray: t is not the Achaean wooers who are anywise at fault, but thine own mother, for she is crafty above all women.

Lawrence: t is not the suitors who are guilty, among the Achaeans, but your respected mother, that far-fetched artful mistress.

Fagles: t's your own dear mother, the matchless queen of cunning.

ID- Wow !! Quite some difference there.

Now, to be described as -
an incomparable schemer; a very artful woman;

an incomparably cunning mother; a clever piece;

the craftiest of women, whose craft exceeds all women's;

that supreme deceiver -( your dear mother);

one who knows advantage well; greatly resourceful;

crafty above all women; that far-fetched artful mistress;

the matchless queen of cunning...

and taken all together, the description of this woman is none too complementary!

crystal_seed,

I think this had to do with Penelope's (un)weaving skills, after she was caught. Lattimore and Cook seem to treat her with the most respect. Rieu and Mandlebaum may be misogynists.