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Half-Blood Prince spoiler/review thread

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Lord_Morningstar
Post subject: Half-Blood Prince spoiler/review thread
Posted: Sat 16 Jul , 2005 9:39 am
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Three Harry Potter threads, I know, but I don't want to spoil anyone. Besides, if Iavas' brother can have a swooning thread, then I can have a HBP thread ;). I probably read the book too fast and didn't absorb enough, but here goes:

MAJOR, MASSIVE SPOILERS FROM HERE ON IN
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HBP SPOILER-FILLED REVIEW

So, straight into it. Let’s start with the most major and massive spoiler.

GoF will always be remembered as the book that Lord V comes back in, and I’d say that HBP will similarly be remembered as the book in which Dumbledore dies.

We were all expecting it, and I was willing to bet that the old wizard would not see the series out since the MoM in OotP. The problem is that it he was just so much a part of Harry Potter that it’s hard to imagine the books without him. He was always there at the start and end of term feasts. He always gave us the important messages and told us the important history. He was the first wizard who we met as a fully-fledged character, and he was always the one who held the fort and plugged the gaps. He’s been removed before, but the fatc that he’s out there somewhere has kept an air of normality about the place. Now, he’s gone forever.

I think the most horrifying thing about his death was its manner. He was betrayed by the man whom he covered for and trusted for some seventeen years. He did not fall in battle like Sirius – he was unarmed. He wasn’t laughing like Sirius – he was trying to save a boy’s soul. He didn’t die out on a mission – he fell in his own school. It just wasn’t right.

The other thing is that he just didn’t seem to tell Harry enough. He told him how he could destroy Lord V, which is enough for the plot, but only just. There seemed so much more that he needed to learn (like Dumbledore’s cool tricks in the DoM duel for a start…). And Harry really needs to get over trying to crucio fleeing enemies…

Then, there’s the simple grief and sadness surrounding the death of such a likeable character. I really became a Dumbledore fan in Book 5, when I first understood how he could inspire such powerful loyalty. He became even more prominent in this book. The line where he tells Harry that he isn’t afraid because he’s with him is probably the most moving line in any HP book. Sadly, it is also very much a passing-the-baton moment.

Also, this means that, for the first time in any of the Books, Lord V has succeeded completely in his plot. He has killed Albus Dumbledore. He is now the most powerful wizard alive. Hogwarts is no longer a refuge. HBP ends with the forces of evil triumphant. Not even the horcrux was held. Not even PoA has such a bleak finale.

Finally, there is the terrible grief of all the other characters. Harry mourned Sirius alone. The whole world mourns Dumbledore. Hagrid’s bereavement is almost unbearable. Speaking of Hagrid, I’m worried about him – it seems that all of Harry’s guardians are going down fairly fast.

And all this leads us back to the character that Redhen styled as ‘the man on the tightrope’.

Well, I can see the Snape fan club crashing down. I really don’t expect anyone to forgive him for the betrayal and murder of Dumbledore. In retrospect, he was probably the coward referred to by Lord V in GoF. I didn’t expect him to fly his true colours soon, but I think that we can all agree that he is now a black hat and that he was all along. His fate will not be pleasant.

Just as Dumbeldore is laid in his tomb, so too are most of the ships. Harry/Luna and Harry/Hermione have both done passable imitations of the Titanic. As for Ron/Hermione, they seem all set to go, even though it wasn’t in this Book. It makes sense, though – Harry will need to become more alienated before the end.

It was interesting to see a Victor Krum analogue pop up on Ron’s side (even though I would hardly compare the brief R/L affair with K/H in terms of subtlety at least). I honestly didn’t expect this, and I’m inclined to blame the disaster on Ron and Ginny. Such a shame – we could have seen R/H tango about six months earlier and I could have got more points on the Wagner challenge over on TORC.

And speaking of such, ‘chocolate’ has been vindicated and sails proudly on the high seas. I was definitely more in the H/G camp than the H/L, and I was thinking that the two would start would drift together before the end. I didn’t think they’d go for it in this book, though - after H/C simmered for two years and R/H for God knows how long I didn’t expect it to strike out of the blue in a single book. Still, JudyA’s hats are all safe ;) (JudyA on TORC promised to eat her hat if Harry and Luna got together in any romantic way).

Luna and Neville didn’t play much of a role this time – Dean Thomas was more important. Pettigrew is still hiding, making only a cameo appearance. Lord V is invisible, but IMHO that only increases his menace - it avoids stormtrooper syndrome for a start.

The second war is definitely shaping up to be more terrible than the first. For a start, it didn’t seem like the dementors swapped sides last time, and last time the good guys had Dumbledore. Inferi seem like pretty nasty pieces of work, and Fenris Greyback makes Bellatrix Lestrage look positively stable. And then there’s the giants…

JKR certainly hasn’t softened the war for us. Security everywhere, and the muggle killings and murders are well underway. HBP retains OotP’s darkess, but gives us a nice plot with a sting (who would have imagined that Malfoy’s assignment was to kill Dumbledore? And who would have thought anything of vanishing cabinet?). I don’t think that it has a plot as neat or as rewarding as GoF’s, but it is an improvement over OotP. It seems to lack some of OotP’s character development, though – I think I definitely appreciate that book more in retrospect.

One area in which HBP succeeds is that it creates real tension – the final battle scenes are definitely some of JKR’s most intense writing. More people should have died, perhaps, but it is a long shot from flying keys and giant chessboards. The whole book is tense. I expected the second war to be kind of cool, but it’s actually as ghastly as real war. At day’s end, I definitely understand old Crouch a bit better. I wouldn’t be inclined to show too much mercy to Death Eaters at the moment. And I’m sure there’s more to lion-man-not-McClaggan than we’ve seen.

Anyway, on to serious business. What does this mean for Book 7? It’s hard to believe that the next Harry Potter book will be the last, but there we go. I’m glad to see that we’ve been vindicated with regards to how Lord V has kept himself alive, and I think that Book 7 has the potential to be quite exciting with the (presumably) the location and destruction of all the horcruxes. A real mystery/thriller.

The flashbacks were interesting, and I think that the fan community will have a lot of fun trying to work out where Lord V has hidden all seven bits of his soul (seven if JKR doesn’t sting us in the tail, that is). That then leaves the question of how Harry will finally kill Lord V. The fan community has purpose. Hogwarts also needs two new teachers. And what will be Malfoy’s fate? And Lord V’s next move? And how will Horace Slughorn end up pulling his (considerable) weight?

There’s much more, of course, but that’ll be enough for now.

We’ve got two years, anyway :D.

Last edited by Lord_Morningstar on Sat 16 Jul , 2005 10:04 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Marty
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Posted: Sat 16 Jul , 2005 9:41 am
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So as not to be spoiled, how about a letter grade?

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moonfariegalena
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Posted: Sat 16 Jul , 2005 4:16 pm
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stoped reading at Dumbeldore dies, and decided I don`t want to know.... :bawl: monday= all we be revealed :)

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Nienor SharkAttack
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Posted: Sat 16 Jul , 2005 5:42 pm
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(Spoilers, but since this is a spoiler thread, it shouldn't be necessary to say so.)




*Wipes away tears*

There. 9 hours of non-stop reading, and I feel very, very empty. Dumbledore is dead. It is... Well, he was a "favourite" when it came to which character who was going to die, but still. I'm a bit shocked.

To take the first chapter first; I laughed through it. I thought about Tony Blair the whole time, sitting there in his office and talking to a wizard. I hope he will read the book. :D

When I was halfway through the book, I stopped and thought, "I'm enjoying myself immensly, but not much is really happening here..." And now that I'm done, I actually still feel that way. Of course lots of important things happened, Dumbledore's death and Snape's betrayal on the top of that list, but I can't help thinking that Book 7 will have to be incredibly long! Most of the Horcruxes are still missing, we saw nothing of Voldemort - and there are so many loose ends! :Q

Lots of romance this time. I've always been sure about Ron/Hermione, Harry/Ginny came awfully fast, but it was Tonks/Lupin that really surprised me! Then again, Lupin is very likable...

Speaking of werewolves, I wonder what happened to Greyback in the end...

Snape. Dear, lovely Snape... *Sneer* But. But, but, but. A lot was written about his facial expressions at the end there, rage and hatred, and... I couldn't help but to think about The Unbreakable Vow. What if it had turned him onto a path he didn't really want to follow? Why would he be so angry? I'm not defending him or anything, I just don't think that anything related to Snape can be simple and revealed at first glance.

Anyone else was reminded of Sauron and the One Ring when it came to Voldemort splitting up his soul and putting the bits into the Horcruxes so that he could not be killed (that easily)? Not quite the same, but it sprung to my mind as soon as the purpose of the Horcruxes was revealed.

Great... Writers block on a post. My head's full of the whole book right now, and I don't know where to begin. (Begin? Continue, you mean!) I'm as unhappy as Ginny about Bill and Fleur, and I'm very interesting to see how everything will turn our for Draco. And the next book, I'm sure, is going to be very, very different from the previous six, and I'm fearing it greatly, because I'm sure that at least one of Harry, Ron and Hermione is going to die, and - I don't want that!

But that was Book 7, not this book. I liked this book very, very much, despite it being far from perfect. It benefitted from not being as long as the last one. I need to think about this. Need a distance.







I can't believe Dumbledore is gone...

Last edited by Nienor SharkAttack on Sat 16 Jul , 2005 6:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Meneltarma
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Posted: Sat 16 Jul , 2005 5:54 pm
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Bloody hell.


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vison
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Posted: Sat 16 Jul , 2005 6:10 pm
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STUPID SPOILER QUESTION HERE.











Lord_M, forgive me for being so dense. I really don't know HP very well, have read only one book and sorta glimpsed bits of the movie. Do you mean to tell me that Snape killed Dumbledore? Is that true?
Thanx in advance.


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Nienor SharkAttack
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Posted: Sat 16 Jul , 2005 6:11 pm
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YES, it's true! :bawl:

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DaMuzikMan
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Posted: Sat 16 Jul , 2005 7:16 pm
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Just finished reading, two sit-downs five hours each.

This is my favorite of the six books so far, even if the ending has definitely left me with a sense of "WTF?" and Harry saying he will never return to Hogwarts felt like a stab with an icepick. It's very clear that JKR is beginning to wrap things up.

Snape has always been a complex character, and I have always thought it would be poetic justice for him to turn out for the better in the end. I guess the problem was that we all were expecting it... this was definitely a plot twist that makes things out to be much more twisted than they already are, because not only did Snape kill Dumbledore, Dumbledore was wrong, and it wasn't something subtly wrong like in OOTP, it was a flat-out screw-up!! The thing is, Snape still seems very complex... I'm still trying to figure out what sort of role he will play in the last book still to come.

I've developed several theories about Voldemort's Horcruxes, which if you do not mind I will list below.

RANDOM SPECULATIONS AHEAD
Redundant: SPOILERS


I gave R.A.B. some five minutes of thought and immediately cast my mind to Regulus Black. Ergo, I think one of the Horcruxes - if, indeed, it hasn't been destroyed already - is nestled in with Sirius's possessions at 12 Grimmauld Place.

I think - and this may be obvious, who knows - that another Horcrux or two is still nestled in the Knockturn Alley shop... there are so many of the Dark Lord's old possessions there that it would be easy to slip in another useful tool... or another trophy that fell by the wayside.

Perhaps another Horcrux is hidden in the Room of Requirement... the giant cathedral with which to hide things definitely got my attention. With all of the junk in there, how easy would it be to not see the forest for the trees?


Overall, I was very impressed with this book and will definitely have to sit down and read it a second or third time soon. (And then read Books 1 through 6 to check for consistency)

Rating - 9 out of 10

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Lady_of_Rohan
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Posted: Sat 16 Jul , 2005 8:34 pm
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Book 6 is a "The Hobbit."
Book 7 will be a "LOTR."

HBP is a giant, horrible prologue to the great wizards' war.

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Anthriel
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Posted: Sat 16 Jul , 2005 11:04 pm
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Well... 7 hours of reading later...

Regulus Black is probably EXACTLY right, DMM. Didn't it say in an earlier book that he was killed by Voldemort himself? There's more to that story, and the weak brother of Sirius may not have been all that weak after all.

I'm just having a problem with Dumbledore really being dead. I mean REALLY dead. Dumbledore really trusted Snape, and it just seems like this is somehow... I dunno, part of the plan.

Didn't Dumbledore say something to Draco about "how can you die if you are already dead?" I'll have to look that up again... it's in that final scene where Draco cannot finally kill Dumbledore. Voldemort really wanted Dumbledore dead... the only way he would stop trying is if Dumbledore WERE dead. Or at least appeared to be dead.

And then Harry tries one of the unforgiveable curses on Snape, and Snape says something about you don't have the will to make it work... wasn't that pointed out in an earlier book? That you have to really want to hurt or kill for it to work? Wouldn't it be at least possible that Snape would zap Dumbledore with a harmless green light while mouthing the Avada Kedavra curse, but without the aim to kill behind it? Surely Dumbledore could have "played dead" well enough to fool everyone for a while...

And then Snape gets all bent when Harry calls him a coward, because if Snape really is participating in very elaborate double-agent plot, he is in very real danger of being killed by EITHER side, and is anything but a coward. Being called one would have really stuck in his craw.

And the Phoenix's lament gave the mourners a little bit of peace, didn't it. Would that be because perhaps Dumbledore wasn't really dead?

Or maybe I just want him to not really be dead. :(

What do you think?


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Lord_Morningstar
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Posted: Sun 17 Jul , 2005 12:18 am
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Wishful thinking I'm afriad, Anth (and I can't blame you). He trusted Snape, and his trust was misplaced. He got hit with an AK in the chest and fell several hundred feet. Snape took an unbreakable vow and fulfilled it. Snape killed Dumbledore in the service of the Dark Lord - it seems that simple to me :(.


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Queen_Beruthiel
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Posted: Sun 17 Jul , 2005 12:27 am
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Dead - and I think he was dying anyway, possibly from the injury sustained at the House of Gaunt. In which case Snape would know: I read there hints that he saved DD and kept him alive long enough to perform two last services for the good guys - retrieving the Horwhatsit and dying in a manner which totally sealed Snape's rep with the bad guys. Oh and saved Draco's soul as well, preventing him from committing murder.

I'm not a Snape fan. I dislike the sentimentalization of his character on the fan sites, but I think this may well be a legit reading.

I've turned around 180% in the last few hours on this issue.


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Lord_Morningstar
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Posted: Sun 17 Jul , 2005 1:14 am
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I can’t possibly see Snape being on the side of the good guys if he is willing to take part in a plan that will let Death Eaters into the castle. Taking Dumbledore’s life per an agreed plan is one thing – letting Fenris Greyback savage students is another. Dumbledore must have known that he was far more valuable as the leader of the good guys than Snape is as a spy. Besides, if it was a plan, it was very risky – anyone could have killed Snape during his retreat, rendering the whole thing pointless. From there, Snape would still need to report to the Order, and I can't see them agreeing to a plan that involves Dumbledore's death. I think we can take JKR’s warning on her website about liking Snape too much at face value and assume that he is now a fully fledged Death Eater.


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Anthriel
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Posted: Sun 17 Jul , 2005 1:43 am
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Ah, LM, you DID read it too fast!

(Actually I'm teasing you... I had to go back and check, myself. :P)

Snape didn't KNOW that the Death Eaters were getting into Hogwarts. When Draco is talking to Dumbledore (and Harry, although he didn't know it) he says that he didn't tell Snape about the Vanishing cabinet pathway to Hogwarts.

I'll go look up the page...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Okay, it's on page 588.

Y'know, I'm really beginning to like this theory of mine...

Dumbledore "pleading" with Snape could be a way for him to urge Snape to do something he really wasn't sure he wanted to do. Obviously, "killing" Dumbledore would make him quite unpopular with the Order, making his life quite dangerous. He may have needed a little encouragement to complete this task.


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Lord_Morningstar
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Posted: Sun 17 Jul , 2005 2:25 am
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These are all good points...consider my judgement reserved (until 2nd reading at least)


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Anthriel
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Posted: Sun 17 Jul , 2005 2:38 am
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I just keep thinking about how I was CONVINCED that Sirius Black was a bad guy. JKR absolutely made it crystal clear that he was a homicidal maniac set on destroying Harry, and all of the evidence that we saw... and that the wizarding world saw... completely supported that conclusion.


And yet... it wasn't true.


(I love JKR!!! And book three is still my favorite...)


Here's the two things that make me think my theory may be wrong:

1. Dumbledore shows up in a picture on the wall, next to other (truly) dead prior headmasters (although I suppose the greatest wizard of the day could fake that, somehow) and

2. I haven't quite figured out how Snape's promises to Narcissa can be unbroken if he DIDN'T kill Dumbledore.


I guess I'll have to read it again, too. ;)


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Lord_Morningstar
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Posted: Sun 17 Jul , 2005 2:58 am
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Oh, Dumbledore is certainly dead - I think there's no doubt about it. Unless there is some way of faking spells, then it was an AK that hit him, he fell hundreds of feet and his broken body was recovered and buried. The question is why.


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Anthriel
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Well... we don't really know if that was Dumbledore's body that Hagrid was carrying to the funeral, although Hagrid seemed to think it was.

The AK thing I've already postulated about... I would think it would be easy enough to not actually kill, if you don't really WANT to kill. JKR has made that point several times, now.

And Dumbledore did fall, no doubt, but we already know that there are magical ways to mitigate the impact of a fall. Harry has fallen off of his broom on more than one occasion, and HE'S not dead.

I'm just saying let's not rule the idea out, just yet, that JKR has a surprise or two up her sleeve. Dumbledore may very well be dead... wouldn't surprise me at all... but everything is not nearly as straightforward as it sometimes seems, in her books. One of the many things I like about her writing, btw!


So... are INFJ's known for being stubborn? :P


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Meneltarma
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Posted: Sun 17 Jul , 2005 4:20 am
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No, I'm with Anthy on this one.

From a friend's journal -


And Snape had to do it, he had to He'd made that Unbreakable Vow, he HAD TO DO IT.

Thank you! That's why I said! Here's my justification:

It is my belief that Snape went into that agreement (the Unbreakable Vow) with Narcissa blind. Which was stupid, but he had to present a good front to Bellatrix. By the time he realized what he had to do, it was too late. I also think there is a closer tie between the Malfoys and Snape that we have yet to see; there may have been some degree of affection in Snape's decision.

So these factors combined put Snape in a no win position.

As for Dumbledore? I think the man was finished, the moment he drank Riddle's poison. I think he knew he was finished. I think his "please" to Severus was motivated by practicality on Dumbledore's part. He didn't want Draco to kill him, because he hoped up until the last that Draco could be redeemed. Thus he wanted to spare Draco. But if Snape did it, it only added to the authenticity of Snape's "cover".

Dumbledore was a smart man. He knew that winning the war is more important than any one individual.

But damn...I can not *wait* for the fic that's gonna come out of this one...



On a lighter not, there are rumours that Remus and Tonks were forced together to stop fanfic writers from writing Sirius/Remus slash. :D


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cemthinae
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At this point I'm not a fan of this book. I'll need to read it again to really form my opinion, but at this point I'm disappointed in it. Just as I was with the last book. Repeated reading will place in into the series, but for now I'm just not impressed.

I wasn't upset by the death or the revelation of the antagonist. Both had been set up in the earlier part of the book. It just felt so... long! *sigh*

Just finished a bitch session about it & all 3 of us decided that it wasn't worth the wait!

Now just two more years...

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