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Nazgûl - a discussion

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Berhael
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Posted: Sun 30 Jan , 2005 5:48 pm
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I assumed that at least one of them would have been King of Rhudaur. Then you have the Dunlendings... prime candidates for Nazgulness. ;) But yes, Rhun, Harad... anywhere but the obvious "good guys" places.

And LOL about the "squat Nazgul". :LMAO:
I guess that men succumbing to the evil of the Nine Rings was just Tolkien's comment on the corruptibility (is that a word?) of humans...

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Dindraug
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Posted: Sun 30 Jan , 2005 6:06 pm
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Berhael wrote:
I assumed that at least one of them would have been King of Rhudaur. Then you have the Dunlendings... prime candidates for Nazgulness. ;) But yes, Rhun, Harad... anywhere but the obvious "good guys" places.
No, they would have to be second age Kings, from the time before the fall of Numenore, but after the War of the elves and Sauron. Rhudaur was one of the three northern kingdoms founded in 800 (ish) of the third age, after the Nazgul had been around for a couple of thousand years.

Same with Dunland. The Dunnish folk were probably origionally from what became Gondor and Rohan in the third age, but they were quite primative and tribel and virtually wiped out my Saurons armies on the march to fight the elves. So not contenders either.

No, I can only think of the strong cities of the Northmen (Dale is not given a founding date, but we know it was ancient in the early third age) or those further east. Because in Tolkiens world view, if a King was evil, his people would do evil acts.

As there are no mentioned evil men, who were they?

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Berhael
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Posted: Sun 30 Jan , 2005 6:11 pm
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How about the men who didn't get to Beleriand during the First Age and didn't have contact with the Elves? Doesn't the Silmarillion mention that Morgoth got some of them on his side through lies and fear?

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Dindraug
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Posted: Sun 30 Jan , 2005 6:16 pm
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I think they are the ones, or the Suthrons and Easterlings of the second ages. We know that Middle Earth extended a fair way south and east, and they must have had kingdoms with advanced cultures to supply the numbers of invasions etc.

Just wish we knew more of them, but that is were MERP shines, as people have tried to expand on rumour and make them ;)

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satch
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Posted: Sun 30 Jan , 2005 6:44 pm
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Axordil wrote:
And this comes off in the films too...when they are just THERE they are frightening. When they attack on Weathertop...not so much.
I dunno... I mean yeah, I agree that they're scarier earlier in the movie etc. I think when you see them in the Shire it's the scariest time you see them out of all the movies. But on Weathertop they have that whole slow moving thing that you see so much in horror flicks.

Where they can move as slow as they like but it doesn't matter because they'll always catch up to you in the end.

...If it wasn't for Aragorn and his burning stick... Tsk...

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Dindraug
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Posted: Mon 31 Jan , 2005 8:19 am
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Where they can move as slow as they like but it doesn't matter because they'll always catch up to you in the end.
No, that's hopping Vampires :LMAO:

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Areanor
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Posted: Tue 01 Feb , 2005 9:37 am
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Dindraug wrote:
It has always puzzeled me that the rings given to Men were way more pliant than thoses given to Dwarves or the Elvish rings.

Why were the nine more suseptable than the seven? Sauron had them both, but he appears to have corrupted Men way more, or we would have (three or four, I can't rememeber) short squat Wraits running around Middle Earth.
:LMAO: at the short squat.

Din, I haven't the english version of the Sil, but I try to translate the passage that came to my mind here - look into the chapter about the forging of the rings.

There it is said that the men were more likely to fall under his reign as they were proud. And we all know that pride cometh before the fall. As far as I understood it weren't only kings, but also magicians and mighty warriors. The people of Dunharg, the black Numerórans, the Eastlings and the southerners. People from Umbar, Harad and Rhûn are very likely candidates.

The rings were forged around 1500 second age
1800 onwards Sauron extended his power eastwards
2251 Nazgûls appear

There might have been some folk in Middle-Earth that wasn't very fond of the realm of Númenor and maybe even jealous. Aren't there better people to corrupt?

The Sil further says that the dwarves were obstinate and hard to reign - talk about stubborn dwarves.... ;). The thoughts in their hearts were hard to find out and could not be turned into shadows.

At least the rings planted the desire for gold and more gold into their hearts. This desire lead to enough trouble and quarrel and war to please Sauron.

When it's said that Sauron got three of these rings back, I suppose it happened when the dwarves lost against Saurons troops. Or like the one Gloin mentiones. As far as I can remember he said that the dwarves went to Moria to search for one of the rings. Gandalf replied that this ring was taken with torment from Thráin in the dungeons of Dol Guldor.

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