board77

*whispers*
I'm a Finrod-fangirl...

Aaaand I've got a very helpful tool to differentiate between the F-elves - clicky
I printed it out a while ago and it lives now in my copy if the Sil.

Ok...when do we start this up?

Guruthostirn wrote:

Ok...when do we start this up?

Well, m'dear, the schedule is in the first post... but the first discussion will be on Sunday, March 6, and will include:

Ainulindalë

Valaquenta

and

Quenta Silmarillion:
1. Of the Beginning of Days
2. Of Aulë and Yavanna
3. Of the coming of the Elves and the Captivity of Melkor

I'm already reading and taking notes. I'll try to get a first post up on this material sometime on Saturday night, March 5.

I started the discussions a week later than I normally would because a lot of people said March was better for them. Given the distractions of this last weekend, I'm glad I did!

I'll be there Ethel, probably cutting and pasting from the TORC thread for the first few chapters!

Alatar

I started reading today.

Ahhh....

Hope this stays alive, and does not languish like the VTSG did. I think having a separate forum was a problem there.

I haven't started reading yet - too busy.

Will do so tonight.

Alatar wrote:

I'll be there Ethel, probably cutting and pasting from the TORC thread for the first few chapters!

Alatar, I'm sure the discussion will go in completely different directions, making our previous comments of dubious value.

Voronwe_the_Faithful wrote:

Alatar, I'm sure the discussion will go in completely different directions, making our previous comments of dubious value.

Hey! I was looking forward to revisiting my Melkor theories with a bunch of new people.

Haven't started reading it yet....like Ber, been to busy. I'll start tonigh though, and hopefully still have enough time to post some of my own theories

I'm still trying to find my copy of the Sil. I moved most of my books over to the new house, this week, and every time I saw a box with a promising label on it, like "fantasy" or "old favorites", I would take a look through it. So far, no luck. I have the hardcover edition of the Sil, and since it's an awkward size, it often winds up being packed in strange company, with books that are NOT related to fantasy.

*Sits Ethel down in a nice plush recliner with her feet up comfortably in front of a fire, with a nice mug of spiced hot apple cider (with appropriate additional ingredients). Some nice, fancy hor derves on a tray next to her. Soothing music plays on an old-fashioned phonograph.

Ethel, dear, are you most comfortable? Because I need to break the news to you: holding this group to ANY kind of schedule is going to be like ..., well it must be said, ... like herding cats.

Just sayin'.

The Yoruba of Nigeria have a creation myth that involves the world being created with music.

Voronwe_the_Faithful wrote:

Because I need to break the news to you: holding this group to ANY kind of schedule is going to be like ..., well it must be said, ... like herding cats.

Well, I'm an experienced cat herder (ran acquisition projects for Intel for five years) - but this is not really "about" a schedule. We can just pause here until we've digested the current material if that's what people prefer.

I'd like to post in this thread, but right now I don't have the time. I have noticed that it's a bit confusing to read. There's the planning of what to do and the actual summaries all in one thread. Maybe this can be split? Keep the planning in an OOC or something like that? A lot like what the VTSG did?

Jynusa wrote:

Quote:

Regarding the character of Melkor ... Melkor is himself a creation of Iluvatar ... and so the consequences of Melkor's creation must have been anticipated. .

Yes. Exactly!
How relieved I am that someone (finally) seems to agree with me.

Here's what I wrote in that other Sil thread:
" My brain will insist on picking it apart and trying to understand the nature of Iluvatar and the Valar. The fact that the infinite is unknowable by the finite doesn't satisify. So, we have the concrete (me) analyzing the metaphysical (divinity). An excercise bound to end in frustration. I keep comming back to Melkor and the other Valar as manifestations of Iluvatar's thought: that even although, once born and free to manifest his will in their own inividual ways; the thought that produced Melkor must have contained a discord within itself. The problem that I have with this is that it speaks to pre-ordination which in turn violates the concept of free will."

And therein lies the paradox.
Is the Marring of Arda determined from the very inception of Iluvatar's thought? And is Melkor the way in which it is meant to be realised?

I apologise in advance to Ath, Voronwe and Alatar for the revisiting of my favourite puzzle (free will/determinism) I am still not convinced that Melkor actually had free will; that he chose to pursue evil and the dark.
I take note of the fact that in my newly purchased Sil, Tolkien himself states that his (Melkor's) was a sub-creative fall. Nevertheless, as I read the myth, Iluvatar meant Melkor to be the source of chaos.

... I shall have a similar problem with Feanor and the making of the Silmarils as well, btw.

Just sayin'

Eruname wrote:

I'd like to post in this thread, but right now I don't have the time. I have noticed that it's a bit confusing to read. There's the planning of what to do and the actual summaries all in one thread. Maybe this can be split? Keep the planning in an OOC or something like that? A lot like what the VTSG did?

That would be fine, Eruname, if you or one of the other admins would be so kind. I always tried to do this in a single thread at TORC to keep from overloading the forum - but it occurs to me that isn't exactly a critical problem here yet.

OK, I have to ask, what the hell is VTSG? There are so many acronyms flying round this board that I feel like I'm in a public relations seminar.

And I'll be back tomorrow to discuss the Sil.

Alatar

VTSG=Virtual Tolkien Study Group

I know of it, but never participated. Another example of the wonderful accomplishments of TORC's membership/fellowship.

Virtual Tolkien Study Group.

Wonderful forum. Studious, quite often profound insights.

I did a lot of lurking and reading.
Never felt qualified to post.

Am I alone in thinking that this could do with being split up a little? I know that the Sil Thread on TORC was a little too much the other way, with 2 page chapters like Of Thingol and Melian getting a week or more discussion time, but there's just too much here to discuss.

Can I humbly suggest that we break up into two sections as follows:
1. Ainulindale and Valaquenta
2. Quenta Silmarillion up to "Of the Coming of the Elves"

Just a suggestion.

Alatar