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The secret to liking Harry Potter and the Fifth Fiasco

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Lord_Morningstar
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Posted: Thu 14 Jul , 2005 9:32 am
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DMM wrote:
But what I don't understand (one of, anyway) is why Voldemort so desperately needed to hear that prophecy. It doesn't exactly say anything profound on how to destroy Harry, does it? But of course, he doesn't knwo that... anyone have any thoughts?
That’s more or less it. He didn’t know what the prophecy said, nor did he know whether it was safe to retrieve it.

For me, the real problem with OotP is that people can apparate and dissaparate within the ministry. Doesn’t that render all security pointless?

If there is a book where Lord V hatches a contrived scheme, its GoF. I hate to say it, because I love the mystery plotline in GoF, but going to all the trouble to get Harry to grab the cup when fake Moody could hand him a textbook or something in his office is absurd.


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Queen_Beruthiel
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Posted: Thu 14 Jul , 2005 10:32 pm
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Lord_Morningstar wrote:
If there is a book where Lord V hatches a contrived scheme, its GoF. I hate to say it, because I love the mystery plotline in GoF, but going to all the trouble to get Harry to grab the cup when fake Moody could hand him a textbook or something in his office is absurd.
I could suggest an answer for that one, with a bit of wriggling. The question really is not what happened but what was supposed to happen.

Harry is supposed to touch the Portkey and be whisked off to the graveyard to provide blood for V's rebirth, and in circumstances which give V a start of an hour or so before anyone realises that anything is amiss.

Tick.

LV will then kill Harry and.... what? What about using the Portkey to return to Hogwarts with his gang, where young Master Barty (who for various reasons including his magical eye is the only one who knows what's going on) is waiting for him?

There he can ... kill loads of people and do what Dark Lords do.

Except that it didn't work out that way.

The magical status of the Hogwarts grounds is never quite clear. Frex, Wormtail in Hagrid's hut does not appear on the Marauders' map. Perhaps a Portkey disguised as a book and handed to Harry in the school itself would not have worked because of the spells protecting the castle.

I'm casting around here - this explanation is by no means satisfactory.

Oh and no-one can apparate and disapparate into and out of Hogwarts. Except house-elves. She changes the goal-posts sometimes.


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Lord_Morningstar
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Posted: Thu 14 Jul , 2005 11:19 pm
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Q_B wrote:
Harry is supposed to touch the Portkey and be whisked off to the graveyard to provide blood for V's rebirth, and in circumstances which give V a start of an hour or so before anyone realises that anything is amiss.
That’s the only explanation I can think of; the entire thing could be made to appear as if Harry was eaten by the acromantula or sphinx. It is a pretty good plan, but might it not be better to make it seem like Harry got whacked by Sirius Black on a Hogsmeade visit or some such thing?
Q_B wrote:
LV will then kill Harry and.... what? What about using the Portkey to return to Hogwarts with his gang, where young Master Barty (who for various reasons including his magical eye is the only one who knows what's going on) is waiting for him?

There he can ... kill loads of people and do what Dark Lords do.
I doubt it; it would blow his cover and put his ‘life’ at risk. His intention was to reappear quietly and begin rebuilding his old network and throwing around a few Imperius curses with no-one noticing.


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Kushana
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Posted: Fri 15 Jul , 2005 12:31 am
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Queen_Beruthiel wrote:
Oh and no-one can apparate and disapparate into and out of Hogwarts. Except house-elves. She changes the goal-posts sometimes.
Remember that our narrator is essentially a fish-out-of-water, and Rowling takes full advantage of that to give out information piecemeal. We didn't even know that house elves existed, at first...

Keep in mind that our source of information on apparating was a book that muggle-raised Hermione read -- one whose accuracy she's begin to question. (And Ron, although he was raised in that world, is that *last* person to enter into the fine points of a technical discussion. ) Note that Harry hasn't befriended any wizard-raised Ravenclaws until this year.... (And while Rowling's now given us Luna, she's also thrown a heaping tablespoon of uncertainty onto any information she gives Harry -- even if she *was* dead right about the Thestrels. Tricksy author!)

With this in mind, I'd put a "?" next to everything we know about apparating until Harry learns to apparate, himself -- until then we're left with perceptions and partial information. (And even when Harry takes his test, that won't make him an expert. )

I think Rowling has the world and its magical system completely laid out -- but she likes to play with our perceptions (i.e. of Scabbers or Buckbeak's execution), and she encourages us to forget that the characters and magical 'technology' can change. (i.e. Lupin was once a perfectly normal human; being a werewolf used to be a hopeless, unmanagable condition; Snape eats food in every book but #5. )

I no longer point my feelings of surprise at Rowling -- she cops to the few inconsistencies she's put in (Mark Evans, the order of the wand-ghosts) -- instead I keep in mind how she's constructed her puzzles and try to sort out what I've missed.

-Kushana

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peeg
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Posted: Fri 15 Jul , 2005 5:23 am
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LordM wrote:
but might it not be better to make it seem like Harry got whacked by Sirius Black on a Hogsmeade visit or some such thing?
That wouldn't work because Dumbldore would know right away that obviously Sirius would do no such thing, and the main reason V went to all that trouble was so he wouldn't arouse Dumbldore's suspicions. I think that's why V's whole plan in GoF was so long-winded.....he went to all that trouble to keep Dumbldore off his back. Obviously he judged Harry disappearing during the third task to cause the least amount of suspicion.
LordM wrote:
His intention was to reappear quietly and begin rebuilding his old network and throwing around a few Imperius curses with no-one noticing.
And once he's done that, then what? Somehow, i don't think i final showdown/emotionally charged/dramatic scene would do the trick to end the war.....V, Dumbldore and Harry should hold some sort of council. :D But if Rowling did decide on a final showdown, i think it should happen on the Hogwarts grounds, because.....well, just because, that would be the best place to have it. :D

Does anyone know how to change the title of a thread? Or can't you? I can't figure out how to do it.... :oops:

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peeg
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Posted: Fri 15 Jul , 2005 5:25 am
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:oops: :roll:

Last edited by peeg on Fri 15 Jul , 2005 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Jude
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Posted: Fri 15 Jul , 2005 9:18 am
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peeg wrote:
Does anyone know how to change the title of a thread? Or can't you? I can't figure out how to do it.... :oops:
Try editing your first post - and just change the subject line.

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Lord_Morningstar
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Posted: Fri 15 Jul , 2005 11:20 am
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JKR has answered her F.A.Q poll:

So how DO the members of the Order of the Phoenix communicate with each other?

I was surprised that this particular question won the poll, because the answer (as I've already said) can be found in an already-published book (Goblet of Fire), whereas the other two questions related to book six. But perhaps I was influenced by the fact that I knew the other two questions had interesting answers – and, of course, you will shortly know the answers to those questions anyway!

Members of the Order use their Patronuses to communicate with each other. They are the only wizards who know how to use their spirit guardians in this way and they have been taught to do so by Dumbledore (he invented this method of communication). The Patronus is an immensely efficient messenger for several reasons: it is an anti-Dark Arts device, which makes it highly resilient to interference from Dark wizards; it is not hindered by physical barriers; each Patronus is unique and distinctive, so that there is never any doubt which Order member has sent it; nobody else can conjure another person's Patronus, so there is no danger of false messages being passed between Order members; nothing conspicuous needs to be carried by the Order member to create a Patronus.

And, as many of you have deduced, Dumbledore's Patronus is indeed a phoenix.

***

This could, perhaps, be how Snape's Patronus could be significant. Also, I'm hoping that this means that we'll soon see a Book 6 related F.A.Q poll.

under 12 hours now, and I intend to spend most of that time asleep.


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Kushana
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Posted: Fri 15 Jul , 2005 8:54 pm
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peeg wrote:
But if Rowling did decide on a final showdown, i think it should happen on the Hogwarts grounds
I've been envisioning something similar, myself -- think of all the places Harry's been on that campus. :D

-Kushana

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Lord_Morningstar
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Posted: Fri 15 Jul , 2005 9:10 pm
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My top bets for the final showdown are still the MoM and Privet Drive.


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peeg
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Posted: Fri 15 Jul , 2005 9:27 pm
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OMFG, TWO HOURS LEFT :D :D

Jude, i've tried that, all it does is change the subject of my first post, not the title of the thread. Am feeling v. frustrated now :P

LordM, interesting tidbit....thanks for letting us know :D

OMG, i'm all jittery.....soo excited :D :D

Kushana, if she does end up making the final battleground Hogwarts, we can be the first ones to say "i told you so!" :D

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