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Reading as a Sensual Experience

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Estel
Post subject: Reading as a Sensual Experience
Posted: Wed 26 Jan , 2005 4:13 am
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Also known on TORC as the Guy Gavriel Kay swooning thread.

I know this is a repeat from TORC, but Enchie, Amarie, Aggie, Sunsilver and I were basically the only ones discussing it over there, so I thought I would repost it here and see if I could get some more views :)

If you haven't read GGK, please, still comment. In the previous incarnation of this thread, he was the common passion among those discussing.

I'm sure there are other authors out there who bring out the same passion in other people - its the views on reading as a sensual experience that I would really like to hear :)
Alassante_Estel wrote:
This started out as a discussion of one book in particular, but it evolved into a question that I had.

About a half an hour ago I finished a book called Ventus, by Karl Schroeder. I would say that the first word I said when I finished the book, was wow, but that would be untrue. I breathed the word - thats the only way to describe it. I could not say it outloud. Since then, I have been sitting, running through the book again and again in my head.

You know that incredible feeling you get when you finish a phenomenal book? Where you can't breath, and you feel almost as if your heart has stopped, and you just want to read the book again - right away, no break, just read it again. Soak it in. Realize whats going on in a way that you couldn't the first time.

This book gave me that.

Though I love to read, and I probably read four or five books a week, it is not often that I stumble across a treasure like this. With Guy Gavriel Kay, yes. Michelle West, yes. George R. R. Martin, yes. I have never had it happen with a sci-fi book before though. Only fantasy. (With the exception of Sheri S. Tepper, but I don't know if she fits into either genre). Though, I don't know if Ventus could be considered purely sci-fi as well. Though all the "magical" things that occur within it can be attributed to (nano) technology, there is a deep sense of fantasy within it as well.

I am in awe. I am inspired. I am even drawn to tears by the beauty of this book. I lost myself within it, no longer in this world, but in another, so well written, it very well could exist.

Read it. Read it read it read it!!!! Even if you are not a sci-fi fan (god knows, I usually am not), just read it. You will definitely not be disappointed.

I quoted one of the lines from this book in the cyberpunk thread, and I quote part of it again now, for it is all the more true after finishing the book...

"To read is to make love to the world"

I think perhaps, that instead, to read is to have a world make love to you. If that makes any sense. Either way, thats what I feel that this book has done to me. Its as if, in its beauty, this book (and others I have read) has become a lover. Unfamiliar now, but with each reread, destined to become more beautiful and more known. Though the intricasies of each of book I read become more known as I reread them, in the truly great books, there is always more to know, more to recognize. Each incredible book I read is like a lover. Different books by the same authors merely create a different mental caress. While I am discovering the depths of these books, I am also loosing myself in them. Saying goodbye to my identity, all the while discovering things about myself through the words that I did not know. Different enjoyments, different pains.

One of the best authors for doing this is Guy Gavriel Kay. Half quoting Enchie here, reading a new book by Kay is like experiencing a new caress from a long time lover. When I am done with his books, I cannot even breath a word. I am stunned, in awe, and completely overwhelmed... for hours, if not days. Though I do not have quite that depth of feeling with this book, it is close.

Right now, I am shaking, flushed, excited and exhausted, and despite all of my talking, the only word running through my head is "wow". I want to read it again, but slower. I want to revel in the depths of it, finding details I had not noticed before. Truly breath in each page, trace over certain lines. I am lost.

Does anyone else get this feeling after reading an incredible book? As though the book has made love to you... Do you see reading as a sensual experience?
Enchie wrote:
Beautiful Estelly.

I have one word to reiterate: Kay.
For it is he and his writing that taught me about this quality of the written medium.

Now that I think back, I think it was a mixture of things, but I am certainly forever indebted to Kay...especially finding Kay at a particularly emotional time in my life... whatever negative things I can say about that time, the new awareness of literature that came after has been a gift...

Not to undermine the Professor here, but with LoTR, or the Sil, I did not get a feeling like this. That in itself is not a detraction from the novels. Tolkien's work is glorious... there, I feel (Especially the Sil) as if Im beholding some grand and sublime epic. Something overwhelming and almost Divine, but something that commands a type of respect almost attributed to things religious. The art is there, the language is beautiful, but it is more the language of a marvelous, larger-than-life tale... hard to explain... it is almost (I apoligize here if anyone finds this blasphemous, it is not meant at all in such a way) as if Tolkien's strong Christianity and inherent Christian morality translates itself into the feel of the book. Whereas I have high respect for the Faith of Christianity, it has a rather solemn great splendor to it... something that makes one behold things in awe.
Kay is more...Pagan?(I dont know what GGK's personal faith is, what Im saying here is the way I perceive the writing and the way it speaks to me.) For lack of a better word I will here use that which defines my chosen path...a path that is very powerful but in a more tangible and inclusive way of things human than Christianity. A sensual way of gripping you... and no Im not merely referring to Kay's expertly, deeply and extremely tastefully written scenes of sexual passion (which arealways meant to show or elucidate some greater depth...of characters, or setting, or theme...) as opposed to Tolkien's virtually complete avoidance of the subject... though that is a part of it...
Whereas reading The Professor is almost like a powerful, traditional Christmas Eve with close family (this is a huge thing for Polish people... I have nothing else non-ethnic to compare it to...), reading Kay is like having a luxurious feast of an assortment of fine vintage wines, the most savoury naturally aged cheeses, and small crackers with bits of gold caviar....

Oh dear, I hope I wont get the Philosophy people on my back for this, jumping between religion, physical passion and gluttony
Not my intention at all... just being clumsy with the explanations and trying to use any metaphor that makes sense to me...

~enchantress
Alassante_Estel wrote:
I think your allusion to wine is perfect Enchie. Even to food, yes. There is something very sensual about food. Reading Kay is rather like drinking fine wine, or eating a piece of the most delicate chocolate. You hold it in your mouth, close your eyes and loose yourself within the taste of it. You can shut out everything else, and experience that one sensation, only, it isn't just one sensation. Like some books, there are layers upon layers of delicate differences, that if you slow down, you can percieve. Kay has the ability to bring you so fully within his world, that when his books end, you are left stunned, breathless, and unable to come back.

Pagan, yes, if only because his books are so earthy. Its like the difference between Earth and heaven when you look at Kays books as compared to Tolkien. Kay is that taste of wine on your tongue, the feel of the breeze lifting your air, or water running over your body. He is physical - touch and taste. Very much a lover. Tolkien is music whispering in your ear, a beautiful sunset. As much as you are awed by it, and amazed by its incredible beauty, you can never immerse yourself in it, or discover even the beginnings of its depths. The closest you can come is singing, playing an instrument, painting, or photography. It is beautiful at a distance, but no matter what angle you come at it from, or how hard you try to get close, you never will.
Neither one is better than the other. They can't be. Both are beautiful sensations, without which, your spirit would slowly wither.

Perhaps this is why some people are able to compare Kay to Tolkien. They are two completely opposite masters of the written word.

It is telling though, my way of recovering from the book I finished this evening. First I tried playing my piano, but the melody I sought would not come to me (I improvise - don't actually know how to play anything except that which I write, improvise or Beethoven). Then I went outside and watched the stars. Both only created frustration. I wanted to feel, not see or hear. I ended up going skinny dipping off my dock, then coming back in, and pouring myself a glass of wine. Both actions, very physical and, for me, very sensual.
Amarie wrote:
Aaah, brilliant. Trust it to my fellow GGKers to start a thread like this.

I'm quite a voracious reader. I eat the same way I read. Fast and far from savoring it. It's only recently, however, that I've really learned to appreciate how amazing GOOD food can taste in your mouth, as does a good book captivates you. I've always known that my favorite books have nothing to do with whether or not they're classics or even solely for the story alone. I remember reading Beagle's The Last Unicorn, and despite the simplicity of the story, I felt magic in his work. THAT is what a great fantasy work should have.

Estel, I love what you say about Kay being earthy. He is that, in a sense. I feel that especially in StS (the Pagan world vs. the "Christian" world). He's been called melodramatic quite a few times, but that doesn't detract from his empathy and insight on human frailty, love and sex. Sex especially. Depending on the characters involved and the story, it's a dance, an art, a song. With StS, Kay makes me want to be an artist, to look at the world through the eyes of an artist. To see the world through its myriad of colors and ever shifting light and dark.

From each author's work emanates a sort of feeling. I read Le Guin's Wizard of Earthsea last year, and for weeks after that, I was fascinated by the beauty and the power of what we take for granted. Our names. To have a name, your true name, be yours because it's who you are and not because it was assigned to you.

Marillier's Daughter of the Forest is more about longing and sadness, transcience and fluidity. Beautiful work. Then again, I'm partial to Celtic literature.

Someday, we really should get together, sit by the fire and discuss Kay.
Enchie wrote:
I just love how this is a Kay-centered gathering... lol
Says something about his work doesnt it?

Books for me, like love, are a risky busines... and Im very reluctant in both. For me it is difficult to start a book... Im very choosy in what I pick up, I need good recommendations...
To me, a measure of transference of trust is inherent in letting an author take you on a journey. In life in general I abhor change and find it difficult... and that is probably why I find it hard sometimes to "let go" and release that first apprehension I always have at the beginning of starting something. I need the author to be capable, skilled enough to be trusted so that I dont get the very unpleasant feeling of dissatisfaction at the end of a book. Kay has more than earned that level of trust with me. Furthermore, he has gotten me addicted to his exquisite liteary caresses
Once such a trust is established, it illustrates one of the wonderful things inherent to literature. The sensuality is always there, once trust is mutually established; there are no let downs and disappointments. A well-loved book is an eternal lover that will stay with you forever; something that isnt always true of the real lovers of this world...

Kay by the fire!!!!! Hell yesssss!!!!!!!
Alassante_Estel wrote:
Amarie - I know what you are talking about when it comes to being a voracious reader. When I first discovered truly well written books, I would either stay up until I finished a book, or until the sun rose. It was nothing to read a book, perhaps two, in a day (this is also the point when I needed glasses). College really messed that up. I still read more than anyone I knew (basically cause no one read books for fun), but I had to get through my books in a hurry. Its only since I've graduated, that I've learned to slow down, and to enjoy a book. Still, when I am reading an author like Kay, or a book like Ventus, I loose myself. I cannot put the book down till I am finished.

*******spoilers******* in the following discussion

I was reading through these posts this morning, and one thought struck me. We've been discussing the sensuality of reading, especially of Kay. How earthy he is, compared to Tolkien. And what really stood out to me was that, Tolkien seems to be music and sight, while Kay seems to be touch and taste. Yet, look at the titles of Kays books. The Fionavar Tapestry. The Sarantine Mosaic. A Song for Arbonne. The look at the subject of Tigana - a sorcerer who takes away all memory of a country. The sound of the name of the country cannot be heard by anyway, yet, one of the most powerful aspects of the story is music. In all of these books, Kay is discussing the very UNearthy aspects which we attribute to Tolkien. The "heavenly" aspects. Sound, sight - music, art.

Perhaps what makes Kay so earthy, so physical - what makes his works our lovers when we read - is that he takes the heavenly, he takes the intricate layers of a sunset, of a Beethoven symphony, and he brings us into them. With his words, we are given the ability to feel colors, and to taste sound. The spiritual world around us us made physical so that we can experience it. So that we can, in essence, make love to it. Just as the physical act of making love can bring a person to a spiritual level, so can certain works bring the spiritual to a physical level.

Isn't that the point of art? Whether words on a page, or a perfect chef made dinner, a physical to spiritual experience. A painting on a wall, or the perfect notes of a single voice echoing song, bringing the spiritual to a physical level. So maybe its not just books that make you feel like the world has made love to you. And perhaps its that spiritual to physical experience, that gives that sexy feeling.

In Tolkiens defense though, he does achieve this feeling as well. I must say, the fist time I read the quote that I have in my sig, I got the feeling that Kay gives me. I all out cried, and ever since then, Elbereth has been my favorite of all Tolkiens characters. For me, she embodies Grace.

On a side note, the melody that I was looking for on the piano last night came to me today. It was worth the wait, and I have succeeded in beginning to write a new song. Taking the ecstasy I felt last night when I finished that book, and giving it a voice.
rwhen wrote:
Can I join this conversation and sit by the virtual fire to talk about ... oh yeah, GKK... please? *pouts* SO okay I didn't make it to getting the book I wanted to join the reading group and the reason is that while digging amongst my boxes of books I found StS... not even cracked open !!!!! WHAT a sin.

Estel, like Enchie and Amarie ((HUGS)) I am an FT fan all the way, tho read Arbonne... not up to Kays standards I think, but I did enjoy it. Fionavar is my name in other lives on different role plays and gaming modules...More people probably know me as Fiona than Rwhen.

Kay moved me...touched my soft under belly and tickled me, made me drop my jaw in shock at a sensitive subject matter, which hurt me. My feelings were involved as well as my brain. I knew I could touch Fionavar and I wanted to. Can't you "feel" the life in Pendaran? Can't you "smell" Avia? "Hear" the rush of the eltor as they swept through the plains.. "Taste" the bitter cold of Starkahd. "See" the beauty, the pureness of the Lios Alfar or the Pariako?

So much of sensuality is using all the senses..getting involved with your whole body, not just your mind. Like you said Amarie, similar to food...savory, sweet, bitter or sour. Each calls to mind an emotion with it.

Will reply with more later... wonderful thread, Estel...((HUGS))
Aggie wrote:
Wow....

It's been awhile since I read 'Tapestry', but I do in fact recognize the feelings you are talking about here. At first I was reading pretty much all I could by Tolkien, and suddenly my mom arrived with "Fionavar Tapestry". So, at first I was kinda sceptical, but my mom was so enormously enthusiastic about the books (kinda like you all are here...), so, overwhelmed as I was I started reading. And I have to agree. With Tolkien I was amazed with everything, but with GGK, it was like I was there. Like it were my friends taking the journey. I got goosebumps, I cried at certain points (Kevin's sacrifice and Diarmuids' duel primarily). Kay writes in a very emotionally involving way, that just pulls you write in. It's not like a movie, which you just watch. It's like you are actually part of it all.
Enchie wrote:
---SPOILERY---

Rhwen youre completely right with Kay involving the senses on a fundamental level. Infusing his work with smells, tastes, sounds, sights and palpable textures... This is also true of the darker and bloodier side of things. He is not afraid to shock, but he doesnt do it (like so many of the prolific ones of the pulp fantasy fiction genre...)for shock value. He is not afraid to tell it like it is, with gore and destruction in order to bring us to the all too human queasiness and the feeling of being physically appaled. With Kay you feel the droplets of water on your skin when Eilathen spins for Kim, but you also smell the nauseating scent of scorched flesh and hear the haunting eerie song outside the Paraiko's cave-prisons... There is weight and substance to what Kay dishes out on both those fronts... ultimatelly, its just sort of like tweaking opposing ends of the same, deep heartstrings...
Aggie wrote:
"Tigana" sounds quite intriguing to me. I've got something with alternate histories. It's just a sense of familiarity, combined with a new mystical flavour that pulls me right in. But I will look in the library, and see whether they have that. I'm not holding my breath though. They might have it in Dutch, but no way I'm reading translations...

"He is not afraid to shock, but he doesnt do it (like so many of the prolific ones of the pulp fantasy fiction genre...)for shock value. He is not afraid to tell it like it is, with gore and destruction in order to bring us to the all too human queasiness and the feeling of being physically appaled."

I gotta agree. When Kay writes something thatwould turn your stomach, if you were part of the story, it will in fact do just that. The feelings you combine with the characters are very intense. I felt myself hating that dwarf and awed by how Tabor took his curse. The final battle was an emotional masterpiece. It had so many moments, which gave me goosebumps. Ah well...

((HUGS)) everyone.

Btw, I'm not going to swoon over Kay. I'm just going to show my respect. Swooning's not for men..,
Estelindwyn wrote:
I just finished reading Tigana yesterday. I am now officially a GGK fan! I guess I am officially swOOning!

He writes with such fluidity and I was just carried away in the river of his words. GGK really captured the nuances of emotion, thought and action, those little things that are so important for entering into another world so completely. He surprised me often but in such satisfying ways.

I'm not sure how to describe it but I left Tigana feeling strangely complete. A feeling that everything was in the right place, the way it was meant to be. GGK gives meaning to all the pain and joy. He managed to capture the bitter-sweetness of life.

Yes, his words are ethereal and earthy at the same time. He lets you feel the soil itself and then the warmth, the life, the rhythm that beats under it. He describes music and singing in a way that makes you feel you can hear it, and more than that, feel it ripple through your soul. Such great joy and such deep sadness. GGK makes you live, breathe and love the world he creates. A rare talent and a rare experience.

Onwards to the FT series!

Thank you all for introducing me to GGK. Sometimes a swOOning thread can be quite inspirational!
Sunsilver wrote:
Another Kay fan checking in here! For me, it's still Fionavar, though I have to disagree with those of you who said Arbonne wasn't as good. I felt that way about Tigana. I couldn't stand to have the heroine fall in love with the man who destroyed her world. It was too much like a romance novel. I disliked it so much I gave away my copy! (Yeah, I know, SACRELIGE!!)

What I loved about Arbonne: {SPOILER WARNING!!!)


the sadness of Bertran's love affair, the emptiness of his life, flitting from affair to affair. All the delicious little funny moments...King Daufridi singing back to en Bertran the song Bertran composed about him, complete with the line "craven Daufridi"... Blaise and Rudy both falling for the charms of the treacherous Lucianna Delonghi...Rudy asking en Bertran for employment, saying he would work for the same wage as Blaise, then finding out Blaise is working for free. And that wonderful, climactic scene, in the final battle, when Urte de Miraval and his troops joins the fight, coming to the aid of Bertran and his troops.

I'm a lover of music. Maybe that's why this book was so special to me. Look again at the final paragraph: "But songs were not only for those whou could perform them with artistry...And so Luth lifted his voice without shame, feeling a deep richness a glory in the night as he galloped his horse down the road...under the risen moons and the stars of Arbonne."

There is more after that, and I've left out some of the shorter posts and off topic posts. No more cutting and pasting though - that's enough for one night :P

So, anyone else want to join the discussion? People read books that engender the same feelings?

This is a discussion where the more people who respond, the better :)[/quote]


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enchantress
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Posted: Wed 26 Jan , 2005 4:39 am
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Ello Estelly! :P

Im off topic, but did you catch drift of the news that Lions is being made into a movie?

Not sure if youre TORCing these days at all but if you were copying/pasting this giant thing today you must have... :P If youre torcing hop into the lions thread and get in on the renewed discussion :P

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Sunsilver
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Posted: Wed 26 Jan , 2005 5:24 am
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AH, there's another poster that subscribes to Kay's newsletter, Warp and Weft, no? :mrgreen: Yeah, I just heard that last week when the newsletter arrived in my inbox. I announced it on Julie Czerneda's newsgroup (SFFNet) and she called him up to congratulate him. He wanted to know how she found out so quickly! :LMAO:


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Anneri
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Estel, that was the thread I read ages ago on torc and remembered the name 'Kay' when I finished my thesis. And was hooked, after I read the first page of 'Lions'.
And of course, I'm absolutely delighted that it's made into a movie!
I've to check his site again. :)

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*Alandriel*
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I'm reading... and I'm really getting my hopes up here. :mrgreen: I've never come across Kay :oops: but I'm soooo missing reading good 'fantasy' type books. I think I kind of 'gave' up when my daughter was born with the influx of really horrible stuff which thoroughly disillusioned me.
It's pure 'magic' when you're left with a total breathless 'wow'! at the end of a book, when you 'fly' for a few days. Not many authors can achieve to strike such a cord. Back some many years, one author, Diana Gabaldon did that for me with a novel called 'Dragonfly in amber' but even more so Ursula K.Le Guin's Earthsea :mrgreen: Pure magic.

off to the libary to look for and if necessary order Kay

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Ethel
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Glad to see there are some Kay fans here - I think he's wonderful. :smile:

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laureanna
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OK OK you convinced me! I just ran out and bought the Summer Tree. I've read the first chapter. I'll post more when I get into it - haven't yet. Way too many names - like the Sil. I can't even remember the names of the 5 people I work with, so this may be difficult.


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enchantress
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Nice to meet you laureanna... :mrgreen:
My heart literally grows and jumps up and down in some weird display of joy when I hear of more people finding Kay :D

Yeah...he's like that with the names... all his books look a little overwhelming in that respect initially, but somehow, everything falls into place... and in most editions he has a "cast of characters" page at the beginning listing the main players in categories of origin etc.

Im also really bad with names... it took me many tries to get through the dratted elves in the Sil that all had names starting with F and were very multigenerational...and here I thought elves were a creative race....:P
Yet somehow, Im alright with Kay... just give it time and glance back at the tables sometimes. It all falls into place. Not nearly as many folk as in the Sil... and the names are more varied at least :P

Hi Ethel! :mrgreen:
We dont know each other yet but its always delightful to meet another Kay fan. I enjoy reading your posts around this place a lot :)

~enchantress

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Anneri
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On a sidenote -
Alandriel, I absolutely *love* Gabaldon's 'Dragonfly in Amber'! And strangely, I decided last night to reread bits of it. Of course, I had to force myself to stop at 3 a.m. after I had bawled my eyes out at the end... ;)
Today I'll start with 'Voyager' - it's been ages since I last read it.

Still very excited about the new film! Even if I'm a bit wary - after all, Lions is my favourite book among Kay's work (I staunchly belong to the 'Lions' party, not to the FT one!), and I think that the whole religious and political stuff that is going on and tends to be quite complicated at the first reading will be simplified somehow. :( But well, we'll see!

Enchantress, I think we've never posted with each other, but let me say how I always enjoy your insightful posts about Kay. :)

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Though all to ruin fell the world,
and were dissolved and backwards hurled
unmade into the old abyss,
yet were its making good, for this -
the dawn, the dusk, the earth, the sea -
that Lúthien on a time should be!


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laureanna
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Posted: Mon 14 Feb , 2005 7:16 am
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I just finished The Summer Tree, and I'm feeling quite bent out of shape about it. I had high hopes, having read your reviews, but I got the feeling I was seeing JRRT in a blender. Little bits of LOTR and Sil floating all over the place, with slightly different names, but still there. It had the evil dark lord in his tower who is an outcast from the rest of the gods, the utterly black and white characters of elves vs orcs, wizards, a horse culture, grumpy forests, a High King .... I am very hesitant to read the rest of the trilogy if it going to be more of the same. Are all of his books like this?

That said, there were some good character developments - the seer was an original idea, and I thought well done.

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Amarie
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Posted: Mon 14 Feb , 2005 8:06 am
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Don't feel bad, laureanna. The thing about Kay is that his fans tend to fall into different "groups", I should say. I'm more in the FT camp, but that has a lot to do with it being my first love, my first Kay book. I used to like Tigana more than Lions, I think (I can't remember), but my Kay favorites tend to shift. FT is very much "high" fantasy while the others are a little different. Maybe you'll find your "Kay" and FT might not be it. It could be StS or Last Light or whichever.

:cheers for this thread, Estel.

I love Dragonfly in Amber too. :mrgreen:

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Estel
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laureanna - try Tigana.

It's kinda weird - most people I've met who like FT the best, are bigger fans of Lions than of Tigana.

Most people I've met who like Tigana the best, are bigger fans of Sailing to Sarantium than of FT

But continue to the end of FT - it's not so much LotR in a blender, as many different stories - won't tell you which, cause it might ruin the story. However, I hightly recommend finishing the series.


I'm a Tigana person myself, and an StS person - you might enjoy those more laureanna :)


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laureanna, I also found the world derivative of Tolkien. And I found some of his grammatical idiosyncracies annoying. I know I should have found the rape devastating - I did not.

I think it may be that I'm so emotionally drained at the moment that it's hard for anything to get through to me.

That said, the characters engaged me enough that I picked up the second volume as soon as I finished the first - and I'm now a few chapters into that.

Perhaps its the kind of book that reveals itself gradually? That perhaps, nourishes more at the end, and at re-reading, than at first viewing? Perhaps it's culture shock. ;)

If I could address the thread title...

It's something I chase: I become passionately attached to books which engage my senses as well as my intellect and in between I long to re-engage. I start to mourn the end of the love affair about three chapters from the end of the book, and the delight when I realise that what I hold in my hand will draw me in and up - it is like being offered luscious summer fruit after a long stint on plain porridge.

Are books your escape hatch? When I'm running away from my own demons, as I am at the moment, I spend every waking hour (when my hands are free) with my nose in a book. The relief! The comfort!

(Of course, at work it would never do to be discovered with a book in hand, so I'm here instead :oops: I can't remember the last time I was so unproductive at work - to my shame. )

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Ethel
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laureanna wrote:
I just finished The Summer Tree, and I'm feeling quite bent out of shape about it. I had high hopes, having read your reviews, but I got the feeling I was seeing JRRT in a blender. Little bits of LOTR and Sil floating all over the place, with slightly different names, but still there.
Well, you're right about that. Moreover, I find the writing, especially in the first book, to be a little - clunky. I thought it grew better in the subsequent books. But the Tolkien stuff is not a failure of imagination. Kay has said that the Fionavar Trilogy was a conscious homage to Tolkien, whom he greatly reveres. It was Kay that Christopher Tolkien hired to knock the Sil into narrative form - he was definitely steeped in the Tolkien legendarium.

Try Tigana, or Lions of Al Rassan, or Song for Arbonne, or Sarantium. :)

Impenitent wrote:
Are books your escape hatch? When I'm running away from my own demons, as I am at the moment, I spend every waking hour (when my hands are free) with my nose in a book. The relief! The comfort!
Totally! I don't know what kind of books you like, but for sheer escapist fun I can recommend Lois McMaster Bujold's Miles Vorkosigan series. Good writing, complex characters, engrossing plots, and plenty of action.

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Primula_Baggins
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May I join you?

I will have to try Kay again. Years ago I bounced off Tigana hard enough that I sold the book, which is something I rarely do. It felt overwritten to me, which distanced me from the characters. Part of the problem may be that I've read very little fantasy beyond Tolkien and Le Guin (and Lewis's Narnia and Perelandra books). What I've tried does feel derivative. Hmm. I had best go read the "Good Fantasy" thread, I think.

I did want to second Ethel's mention of Lois McMaster Bujold's Vorkosigan series. "Sheer escapist fun," absolutely, but very well done, with clever plotting and solid characterization. And a space opera hero with wit, bravura, and a romantic soul who was born with crippling birth defects.


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Amarie
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This thread makes me want to read FT again. I really love that series. :) Speaking of Kay and the Sil btw, we just finished discussing the Sil in my Tolkien class. We've moved on to The Hobbit for next week. You'd think reading Tolkien in an academic setting would tarnish my enjoyment somehow, but as with every re-read of a good book, I find gems I've missed before. I must've read about FT three times, and I hope to savor it more on my next re-read.

I don't have a problem so much with derivative, I think, but as long as it's done well. :scratch Does that make sense? I'm also one of those fantasy readers who will read Feist's Magician, for example and enjoy it, and yet, not think of it as highly as I do Kay, Marillier, LeGuin (I won't even bother mentioning Tolkien) because at the end of the day, it still boils down to "magic", however corny that may sound. I love being moved by words. It's one thing to go on a ride, partake in the adventures, but a whole other thing to be moved to see and feel and be sucked in emotionally and mentally, where you feel you've invested part of yourself in the enjoyment of a book. On the night that I read the rape in The Summer Tree, I couldn't sleep and subsequently, I had a nightmare. Kay's Dark Lord IS more reminiscent of Morgoth than Sauron in that he was more tangible (like when Luthien faced Morgoth). At least for me.

I think it was brilliant on Kay's part to go with a mosaicist (is that even a word?) as his protagonist for StS. It made me want to render the world through an artist's eyes. The colors, the vibrancy... Even more so than the others, StS reminded me of this balance (and struggle) I had in me, of remembering where I came from and where I am now, of my Catholic background and the agnostic in me. It brought back memories of the dusty roads my friends and I used to play on when we were little, but it also made me grateful for the crispness and the tranquility of the air and nature in the place I now live in.

Damn, it's valentines, and I'm in a pensive mood.

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Estel
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I'll make a better post later (haven't had coffee yet) but I'll say this about StS - it took over as my favorite for about a year. Even through a rereading of FT and Lions. It wasn't until I reread Tigana that it lost that spot - didn't really loose it though. When I think about those books, Tigana and StS are having a pretty intense stairing contest as to who is my favorite ;)


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Eruname
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Finally found a few Kay books in a bookstore and had a bit of time to skim the beginning of one...I think it was Sarantium. Just from a quick skim I think I can tell I'll like his books. :) I just have to finish 716 pages of Mists of Avalon first. ;)


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Estel
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Just wanted to make an open invitation to LilyRoseTook to get her ass in here and post. She's read Tigana twice and loved it, and I'm thinking she needs some more Kay books as well :D

So Lily (and anyone else who wants to answer) - what made you love Tigana so much? Any favorite characters or characters that touched you more than the others? If you had to pick a favorite sentence (or two) and a favorite paragragh (or two) from the book, what would they be?



Here's an idea - we start with our favorite Kay book, and answer those questions about it. When we've all discussed all the Kay books we want, we can start on another author. Sort of like an informal reading club, but not, cause we aren't all necessarily reading the same books. That way, no one feels like they have to keep up with every one else, but we can get an up to the moment response from people on books they are reading - gives a better chance of finding a damn good book than just reading off of someones list :)

Whatcha all think?


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Amarie
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I think it's a good idea. :cheers

I'm not keen on the Arthurian sagas for some reason. I always feel bad for Arthur. :P So, I'm not sure I'll like Mists of Avalon. What do you think of it so far, Eru?

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