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Silwen
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Posted: Fri 07 Oct , 2005 8:30 pm
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Studying literature has spoiled me. :blackeye: I noticed that it is getting increasingly difficult to find a book I like without reservation. :Q

I am now starting TC Boyle's novel "World's End." I have read two of his novels and a short story collection. One of the novels wasn't to my liking, but all the rest was great, and I even wrote a paper about one of his stories. I hope this novel is good as well, and so far it seems so.:)

By the way, Updike reviewed "Wicked" and loved it. :help: Goes to show why I don't like his own work. ;)

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moonfariegalena
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Posted: Sat 08 Oct , 2005 7:09 am
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:D for the Updike

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I've been making a list of the things they don't teach you at school. They don't teach you how to love somebody. They don't teach you how to be rich or how to be poor. They don't teach you how to know what's going on in someone else's mind. They don't teach you what to say to someone who's dying. They don't teach you anything worth knowing.

N. Gaiman


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Silwen
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Posted: Tue 18 Oct , 2005 11:52 am
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*sigh* I abandoned "World's End" so I can read the shorter "The Shipping News" instead. That's not because TC Boyle's book is bad - I just felt like reading something I could finish sooner this time. ;) So far I really like Proulx's book. It won the Pulitzer, which I didn't know. I never saw the film, though.

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moonfariegalena
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Posted: Sat 22 Oct , 2005 7:26 am
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still growing into the change of the rythm due to the new job, whih leaves me a bit drained....haven`t been reading anything of quality, I`m afraid....picked up some of the Millman`s books but that`s it.....

I bought the Loretta Lux monography yesterday :D am very happy :love:

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I've been making a list of the things they don't teach you at school. They don't teach you how to love somebody. They don't teach you how to be rich or how to be poor. They don't teach you how to know what's going on in someone else's mind. They don't teach you what to say to someone who's dying. They don't teach you anything worth knowing.

N. Gaiman


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Silwen
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Posted: Sun 30 Oct , 2005 2:52 pm
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I had to interrupt The Shipping News to read Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince. I liked it, as I did all HP books. It is so much fun speculating how things will go on! :D

A friend of mine gave me a book called Silk by an Italian writer whose name I keep forgetting. :blackeye: I gave her The English Patient in exchange because it is my favourite book and I have it twice on my shelf. :blackeye: I told her to keep it and she gave me the Italian one in English translation. So I will read this short novel before getting back to The Shipping News.

This week grad school started and that means I am now finally continuing work on my thesis again! Thank goodness! I was seriously bored this summer, intellectually. So I will be reading a lot again as of now and who knows what kind of interesting stuff I may have to post here. ;)

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moonfariegalena
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Posted: Sun 30 Oct , 2005 7:01 pm
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"Silk"- I like the possible implications of that title :D

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I've been making a list of the things they don't teach you at school. They don't teach you how to love somebody. They don't teach you how to be rich or how to be poor. They don't teach you how to know what's going on in someone else's mind. They don't teach you what to say to someone who's dying. They don't teach you anything worth knowing.

N. Gaiman


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moonfariegalena
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Posted: Wed 09 Nov , 2005 6:51 pm
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just yesterday, I finished the first book in the Wtiches of Ea series.... :D

me LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKELIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE!!!

oh, yeah...did I mention I am thoroughly enjoying it so far, with a tendency to enjoy them even more by the end of it :P

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I've been making a list of the things they don't teach you at school. They don't teach you how to love somebody. They don't teach you how to be rich or how to be poor. They don't teach you how to know what's going on in someone else's mind. They don't teach you what to say to someone who's dying. They don't teach you anything worth knowing.

N. Gaiman


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Silwen
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Posted: Wed 09 Nov , 2005 7:08 pm
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Wow! :Q Someone's really excited! ;) I suppose I will need to keep an eye out for the series too. Others have already recommended it to me, but since I don't normally read such books, I haven't bothered to check for these.

I haven't been doing much reading lately. I am still getting through The SHipping News. It's a good book, but I am too busy with other things, even a possible new romance, who knows? ;) So I have been too caught up with other things than books. I suppose the next few books for me will also include lots of stuff for my thesis, mainly secondary literature. :help:

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moonfariegalena
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Posted: Wed 09 Nov , 2005 7:39 pm
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I think my energy is spilling over from other areas into the reading part of my life ;)

offers Silwen a place next to a fire with a charming drink to sip, to prepare you for that -secondary literature- jump....

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I've been making a list of the things they don't teach you at school. They don't teach you how to love somebody. They don't teach you how to be rich or how to be poor. They don't teach you how to know what's going on in someone else's mind. They don't teach you what to say to someone who's dying. They don't teach you anything worth knowing.

N. Gaiman


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BrianIsSmilingAtYou
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Posted: Sun 04 Dec , 2005 5:47 am
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I went to the local used bookstore today and picked up several books:

One hundred Poems from the Japanese: Translated by Kenneth Rexroth
Extraterrestrial Civilizations: Isaac Asimov
World's Best Science Fiction 1966: Edited by Donald Woldheim
World's Best Science Fiction 1968: Edited by Donald Woldheim
World's Best Science Fiction 1969: Edited by Donald Woldheim
World's Best Science Fiction 1970: Edited by Donald Woldheim
World's Best Science Fiction 1971: Edited by Donald Woldheim
World's Best Science Fiction 1972: Edited by Donald Woldheim
World's Best Science Fiction 1973: Edited by Donald Woldheim
World's Best Science Fiction 1974: Edited by Donald Woldheim
World's Best Science Fiction 1975: Edited by Donald Woldheim
World's Best Science Fiction 1976: Edited by Donald Woldheim

They had the complete run of these years all together, and I already had the 1967. It was a stroke of luck to find a whole collection like that. Lots of good stuff for lunchtime and sleeptime reading. (And I already have so many books to read! Ugh!)

BrianIs :) AtYou

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Silwen
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Posted: Sun 04 Dec , 2005 10:17 am
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:Q Lots of stuff!

I'm glad you found the complete run after all. Can you tell me anything about those Japanese poems, please, Brian?

I haven't read anything "fun" for a while even though I still have to finish "The Shipping News" anda few other books, not to mention the ones I still have on my shelf unread. *shame shame*

But at least I did manage to read some of that horrific secondary literature, even if it wasn't much. For a short time I was even tempted to actually write another chapter for my thesis. Tempted, I say. Not that I really did it. Not yet, at least. *more shame* It's awful. I started my thesis in January and have almost nothign to show. Admittedly, I did no work from April to October because I was earning a bit of money, but it got me out of the whole routine so much that I am still struggling with it. Now I have read a few articles and borrowed some books, made a list of other critical texts I must get, and all I need to do is actually borrow or order them. It's the reading part I do not like much in this thesis. I'd rather prefer to analyze my chosen primary texts. :) But I will get there. At some point. :oops:

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BrianIsSmilingAtYou
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Posted: Tue 06 Dec , 2005 6:32 am
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Silwen wrote:
:Q Lots of stuff!

I'm glad you found the complete run after all. Can you tell me anything about those Japanese poems, please, Brian?
The poems cover a broad variety of periods, and primarily consist of tanka, rather than haiku, which the translator Rexroth feels has received too much emphasis.

Nonetheless, there is still an emphasis on kigo (season words) and subtle shift of mood, the use of "pillow words" (words which serve as two meanings, something akin to a pun and a metaphor, and a linguistic pivot), etc. See Pillow Words Sometimes the "pillow words" are compared to the epithets of Homeric poetry, like "rosy-fingered dawn", or the kennings of Anglo-saxon, like "whale-path" for the sea, in Beowulf.

Kigo is relatively easy to translate in terms of imagery, although the associated meanings may be lost, as certain kigo have specific associated connotations. See The World Kigo Database.

I have a pretty firm grasp on the Kigo concept, but the finer shades of meaning in the pillow word idea is still something that I am studying.

Skipping the technicalities for a moment, here are a sample:

Tomorrow I was
going to the Spring meadows
to pick the young greens.
It snowed all day yesterday
and snowed all day today.


The sense of irony is shown, not expressly told, which is the hallmark of effective poetry.

The imagery is often vivid, and involves multiple senses:

I wish I were close
to you as the wet skirt of
a salt girl to her body.
I think of you always.


In other cases, the sense of humor is evident in understanding the human condition:

You say, "I will come."
And you do not come.
Now you say, "I will not come."
So I shall expect you.
Have I learned to understand you?


Again, the personality is shown through the narrators perception, rather than told. The narrator does not say, "You are contradictory. You are fickle." He shows it through the selection of dialogue, actions and reactions, and leaves the reader to draw the conclusion.

The following contain an example of a "pillow word" that translates fairly well to English. The Pillow Word is "pine", and it serve the dual meaning of the evergreen tree and the emotion "to pine", meaning "to long for". It is a curious coincidence that there is a comparable word in English with a similar dual use:

I must leave you, but
if I hear the sound
of the pine that grows
on Mount Inaba,
I shall come back at once.


In the original, the use of the pillow word for "pine" is a signal to interpret the imagery both literally and according to the associated emotional meaning. The "sound/ of the pine" is the moan of the emotionally distraught lover, and it is echoed in the wind through the trees on the mountain.

There are also some examples of haiku, including the famous frog haiku by Basho, but some lesser known ones. This one struck me as very poignant, and an excellent example of the form:

A blind child
guided by his mother,
admires the cherry blossoms.


This has a wonderful sense of the surprise and contrast that true haiku are known for (as opposed to the uninspired 5-7-5 crap that so-called "haiku" that school children [and others] write without any understanding of imagery, contrast, or seasonal references.). In this haiku, the kigo is "cherry blossoms", which is a season word associated with spring.

Not only that, but the cherry blossom is associated with certain social festivities, and it would be understood that the meaning of this poem is that the blind child is being treated as a whole person who is a part of human society, rather than being hidden or disregarded because of his disability.

--------------

I wrote a haiku last year on the death of my sister-in-law Hiromi's mother Masako:

The crested ibis
flies beyond the turtle's sight:
Masako follows.


This was picked up by the curator of the Daruma Museum in Okayama Prefecture, Gabi Greve, who maintains The World Kigo Database, and it is now used as an example in the online collection:

See Ibis (Hadada) (You have to page down a bit to see it.)

----------------

I hope this has been of some help.

BrianIs :) AtYou

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Tinsel_the_Elf
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Posted: Tue 06 Dec , 2005 6:56 am
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Terrific post, Brian!

I picked up a used copy of this collection at my local used book shop for $10 last year:

From the Country of Eight Islands: An Anthology of Japanese Poetry

It has resided on my nightstand ever since. I only wish that I could speak/read Japanese, so that I could get all the complex subtleties of some of the wordplay (like the pine/pine pair that you reference).

I'm also enamoured by the Japanese/Chinese notion of calligraphy as an elevated, high-art form capable of expressing both emotion and individual character. How wonderful to be able to write and paint (in the visual sense) a poem at the same time! There was a small but gorgeous exhibit of Japanese screens at the Asia Society last year, many illustrated with narrative scenes from The Tale of Genji but also embelished with snippets of verses (lots of descriptions of trailing sleeves, and black hair). Even though I couldn't decipher the characters the way they were brushed onto the surfaces was as important and lovely as the images themselves.

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Silwen
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Posted: Tue 06 Dec , 2005 6:20 pm
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Hello Tinsel and Brian. :)

Two wonderful long posts! I also wish I knew Japanese to read more of the poetry in the original. I have always disliked reading literature in translation because so much is lost - I see it whenever I try to translate my own work and see it doesn't work very well without me losing something or rewriting some lines completely.

This summer I found one of Pablo Neruda's collections, the one I had been looking for for years, and it has the original Spanish as well as the English translation in it. You can't imagine how happy I wa sto find it! If I have to get a book in translation at all I prefer to get the English one instead of my native German. English works better, the vocabulary is greater and has more subtle differences than German so that a translation is usually more accurate.

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Tinsel_the_Elf
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Posted: Tue 06 Dec , 2005 7:12 pm
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I like Neruda a lot too, but I feel like I don't know him well enough. I know enough Spanish to read poems aloud (I love dual-language translations for this reason!), and I've read Lorca that way.

We need to start a "Poem of the Week" thread. :) Sort of like a Book of the Month club, but I think the smaller format of a poem would work better for the internet. We could post a new poem at the beginning of every two weeks for analysis, discussion, or bringing in of related material.

Anybody interested? I'd be happy to start the thread, and select the first poem for discussion, though it would probably have to begin after the Christmas holidays.

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Silwen
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Posted: Tue 06 Dec , 2005 10:21 pm
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I am always up for that! But remind me to check the thread out once you have opened it or I may forget about it - I have a brain like a sieve sometimes.

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BrianIsSmilingAtYou
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Posted: Thu 08 Dec , 2005 4:34 am
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Tinsel_the_Elf wrote:
Terrific post, Brian!

I picked up a used copy of this collection at my local used book shop for $10 last year:

From the Country of Eight Islands: An Anthology of Japanese Poetry

It has resided on my nightstand ever since. I only wish that I could speak/read Japanese, so that I could get all the complex subtleties of some of the wordplay (like the pine/pine pair that you reference).
My oldest brother learned Japanese when he lived there for several years. Since he learned from a book, he uses a more formal form of Japanese. His wife, who is Japanese, says that they go to Japan everyone treats him like an aristocrat, because he speaks the "high" form of the language.

I know little to no Japanese, though I have a feel for the beauty of the language.
Tinsel_the_Elf wrote:
I'm also enamoured by the Japanese/Chinese notion of calligraphy as an elevated, high-art form capable of expressing both emotion and individual character. How wonderful to be able to write and paint (in the visual sense) a poem at the same time! There was a small but gorgeous exhibit of Japanese screens at the Asia Society last year, many illustrated with narrative scenes from The Tale of Genji but also embelished with snippets of verses (lots of descriptions of trailing sleeves, and black hair). Even though I couldn't decipher the characters the way they were brushed onto the surfaces was as important and lovely as the images themselves.
The use of calligraphy is also common in Islamic culture.

The Japanese screen exhibit sounds like it was great--was this in NYC?. I try to get up to NYC on an occasional basis, usually around the holidays or if something is going on.
Silwen wrote:
Hello Tinsel and Brian. :)

Two wonderful long posts! I also wish I knew Japanese to read more of the poetry in the original. I have always disliked reading literature in translation because so much is lost - I see it whenever I try to translate my own work and see it doesn't work very well without me losing something or rewriting some lines completely.
I have occasionally tried to do some translations of my own work to French (because I was trying to brush up on the language) and I understand the problem. It did help me learn a great deal.
Silwen wrote:
This summer I found one of Pablo Neruda's collections, the one I had been looking for for years, and it has the original Spanish as well as the English translation in it. You can't imagine how happy I wa sto find it! If I have to get a book in translation at all I prefer to get the English one instead of my native German. English works better, the vocabulary is greater and has more subtle differences than German so that a translation is usually more accurate.
I've read some Neruda, and I've been tempted to pick up a book of his at Borders' that has the original side by side with a translation.
Silwen wrote:
We need to start a "Poem of the Week" thread. Smile Sort of like a Book of the Month club, but I think the smaller format of a poem would work better for the internet. We could post a new poem at the beginning of every two weeks for analysis, discussion, or bringing in of related material.

Anybody interested? I'd be happy to start the thread, and select the first poem for discussion, though it would probably have to begin after the Christmas holidays.
I could be up for this.

BrianIs :) AtYou

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Silwen
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Posted: Thu 15 Dec , 2005 1:39 am
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Here's my 2005 booklist copied from my blog:

Books I read this year in chronological order (since the year isn't over yet, I may add a book or two later):

1. Robertson Davies, What's Bred In the Bone
2. John Berger, To the Wedding
3. David Leeming, Myth: A Biography of Belief
4. Margaret Orbell, Contemporary Maori Writing
5. Jan Siegel, The Dragon Charmer
6. Michael Morrissey, The New Fiction
7. Clare Dunkle, The Hollow Kingdom
8. Jan Siegel, Witch's Hour
9. Mark Williams, The Source of the Song: NZ Writers on Catholicism
10. Alley and Williams, In the Same Room: Conversations With NZ Writers
11. Joseph Conrad, Herz der Finsternis und andere Erzählungen
12. Jürgen Egyptien, In der Sprache zwie: Gedichte
13. Daniel Wallace, Big Fish: A Novel of Mythic Proportions
14. Jones and Froud, Seltsame Flecken und befremdliche Gerüche
15. Keri Hulme, Stonefish
16. Jean Cocteau, Les Enfants Térribles
17. Clare Dunkle, Close Kin
18. Ulla Gast, Ausreden für Studenten
19. Keri Hulme, the bone people
20. Lisa Cherrington, The People-faces
21. Barbara Pym, Quartet in Autumn
22. Gloria Steinem, The Vagina Monologues
23. T.S. Eliot, Collected Poems 1909-1962
24. Paul Auster, Mr Vertigo
25. Stephen King, Storm of the Century
26. Roger McGough, The State of Poetry
27. Anton Chekhov, The Kiss
28. Anais Nin, Models and Artists
29. Gabriel García Márquez, Seventeen Poisoned Englishmen
30. Nadeem Aslam, Maps For Lost Lovers
31. Jonathan Coe, 9th and 13th
32. Curzio Malaparte, Blut
33. Witi Ihimaera, Band of Angels
34. Witi Ihimaera, The Uncle's Story
35. Zanardi and Schisa, Lieber Weihnachtsmann
36. Patricia Grace, Dogside Story
37. Márquez, Living to Tell the Tale
38. Ian Brodie, LOTR Location Guidebook
39. Pablo Neruda, Twenty Love Poems and a Song of Despair
40. David Guterson, Our Lady of the Forest
41. Niffenegger, The Time Traveler's Wife
42. Yann Martel, The Facts Behind the Helsinki Roccamatios
43. Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland
44. Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
45. Helen Fielding, Bridgit Jones's Diary
46. Joanne Harris, Chocolat
47. Jon McGregor, If Nobody Speaks of Remarkable Things
48. Gregory Maguire, Wicked
49. JK Rowling, Harry Potter and the Halfblood Prince
50. Alessandro Baricco, Silk
51. E. Annie Proulx, The Shipping News
52. Patricia C. Wrede, Calling On Dragons

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