board77

sauronsfinger wrote:

I took issue with the article which was given to us to read at the start of this thread. Have others read it? Did Fixer read it? In it, the author cites the rise of video gaming and names GRAND THEFT AUTO (his choice not mine) and compares them to national crime statistics for the same time period. He concludes that since crime among the young has gone down in that period, that video games, specifically violent video games like GRAND THEFT AUTO are not a contributing factor.

My point was that you can do lots of things with charts and stats. You can take the same twenty year period and show the obvious increase in weight and obesity and deline of exercise among the young.

Yes, I read the article and was rather interested at its conclusions.

In the timeframe you mentioned, there has been another, VERY significant change in our society that I believe contributes the vast majority of the problems you mentioned.

Parents work more and spend less time with their kids due to society pressures and personal ambitions.

Parents now do their cooking at drive-thru windows on their way home. They are too exhausted after working and house cleaning to spend quality time with their kids so they buy games to give themselves a break. Children, bereft of parental guidance and attention, eat unhealthy foods, don't get exercise, develop social problems because they aren't getting socialization WITH THEIR OWN FAMILY.

All this bull about video games and TV and gangs would be a completely moot point if PARENTS SPENT TIME WITH THEIR CHILDREN. Cook for them. Talk to them. Play games WITH them. Be involved with their lives. Children shouldn't be left to raise themselves, they do a crappy job of it.

Of course, the media isn't about to announce to the world, "Hey, parents! Get off your ass and spend time with your kids! Work a little less and learn to do without the fancy new car! Be a role model for your kids!" That's just not good sensational journalism.

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PARENTS SPENT TIME WITH THEIR CHILDREN

Whats that precious?

You mean to suggest that parents spend time with the children?

That would take away from the 'me' time.

Fixer....you's so crazy.

My husband has grown up playing video games. He plays all sorts, including "violent" fighting games. However, he has also seen real violence due to a rather rough childhood. He's the most gentle person I know. He doesn't even hit people playfully.

I think the games can only affect a child if they're completely disconnected from reality. That disconnect is a symptom of a deeper problem, IMHO. Fixer is right.

Which brings up the question of why people have children if they don't want to spend time on them. But that's for another thread.

Count me in on the game.
Here it is.. the TRUTH from Fixer.

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Parents work more and spend less time with their kids due to society pressures and personal ambitions.

I do not know if it is societal pressures or rather a desire to supplant actual happiness with things and objects that can only be acquired with more money brought on by a double income. And I know of few cases where a company puts a gun to a parents head and says "screw your own kids, your ass belongs to us". And anyone who would allow that to happen to them better double check their priorities.

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Parents now do their cooking at drive-thru windows on their way home. They are too exhausted after working and house cleaning to spend quality time with their kids so they buy games to give themselves a break. Children, bereft of parental guidance and attention, eat unhealthy foods, don't get exercise, develop social problems because they aren't getting socialization WITH THEIR OWN FAMILY.

And who is being forced to do these things? In the end, we are all responsible for the choices we make. We are all free people who must live and die with the poison we decide to drink or not drink. Many people provide cooked home meals for kids despite working a job for eight hours each day. Many are single mothers who should be honored for taking up the job of two parents and bring home the bacon and cook it in addition. As a matter of fact, house cleaning takes leess hours today than it did at any time in the last 100 years due to technology. Isn't it ironic that women of fifty years ago found a way to spend countless more hours doing household chores plus provided home cooked meals for their families each day? Of course in those days, the goddamn THINGS that we think we need to be happy were not so important and consumerism was not a religion. Many of the children who do not get exercise are instead sitting in front of a TV screen hour after hour, night after night, exercising only their thumbs. Nobody is forcing them to do that. That is a choice freely made.

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All this bull about video games and TV and gangs would be a completely moot point if PARENTS SPENT TIME WITH THEIR CHILDREN. Cook for them. Talk to them. Play games WITH them. Be involved with their lives. Children shouldn't be left to raise themselves, they do a crappy job of it.

Your family is hooked and enjoys video games so others that do not means it is CRAP. When we get regulations and a licensing procedure for parenting then please talk to me about these things. Until that time the only requirement society places upon the ability to create another human life is the ability to copulate for a few minutes. For far too many, parenting ends right there. The issue of what video games are contributing to the demise of America is a valid issue that should be explored and researched. It is NOT the only issue. I would add television, double parent working families, single parent families, junk food diets, sexual pressures on younger and younger children, males who do not know what it means to be men and many other issues. But to ignore the fact than many young people fritter away valuable hours playing silly and often pointless video games in an isolated and cloistered environment is like an ostrich sticking its head into the sand.

Eltirwen wrote:

I think the games can only affect a child if they're completely disconnected from reality. That disconnect is a symptom of a deeper problem, IMHO. Fixer is right.

That sums up my view on this. Same goes for music, film, books, ect.

Other point: as video games have become more popular teen pregnancy rates have been dropping. Does this mean that video games have reduced teen sex? Or does it mean that this kind of stat is almost entirely meaningless?

yovargas asks

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Other point: as video games have become more popular teen pregnancy rates have been dropping. Does this mean that video games have reduced teen sex? Or does it mean that this kind of stat is almost entirely meaningless?

Obviously you have hit on something. One can bring up all type of statistics to attempt to prove a point or theory. However, most thinking people would look for some obvious connection between the two sets of stats being compared. Teen pregnancy and video games are a doubtful connection at best. However, when the culture of the young has replaced active play and exercise with sedentary sitting in front of a TV for hours and hours exercising only their thumbs, one cannot but notice the corresponding rise in obesity and other health problems. You have replaced a healthy activity which causes one to be physically fit with an activity which is sedentary and contributes to inactivity and lack of exercise.

So maybe we don't need "proof". Maybe we don't need statistics at all.

Maybe it's just a little horsesense we need.

When my son was 7 years old, he and his dad (that would be my husband) were very much into playing some interactive internet-based shoot-em-up game. It made me uneasy, but I trusted that hubby knew his stuff, and having BEEN a 7 year-old boy at one point (an accomplishment I cannot match) he would have a better grasp of testosterone-induced "boys will be boys" vs. Too Much Violence.

I walked by this computer room one night, just in time to hear my adorable blond son, with his adorable lisp, turn to his dad and tell him, "Didya see that? I got him with one shot to the head!"

Y'know what? That was enough for mom. Statistics be damned.

Sometimes you just gotta go on instinct.

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You have replaced a healthy activity which causes one to be physically fit with an activity which is sedentary and contributes to inactivity and lack of exercise.

You're right. Although, I don't see any reason to blame or even suggest that video games have anything to do with this. I know people who play video games and exercise. It doesn't prove anything per se.

All I know is that if an alien lands on Earth, I will have overwhelming urge to kill it - but I'm confused as to the method I'd want to use - bombs, laser, machine gun or a triple backward spin-kick with a double salko and a three-and-a-half-pike.

Can anyone help?

One of my best friends at University, I recently discovered, has a rather agressive temper. It took me this long to figure out because whenever he'd get angry he'd sit down with a video game - sometimes a violent one, sometimes not - and he'd play it until he got his anger out. He thinks of it as anger management of a sort.

I have mixed feelings about this, personally. On one hand I've never seen him get angry at anyone; I've seen him angry, yes, but never around other people and never violently so. Whatever he's doing must be working. And I can't say he doesn't get enough exercise... I'd like to know his secrets, personally, the boy weighs a good thirty pounds less than I do and we're the same height... (I'm 10 overweight, he's 10 under)

Then again, shouldn't my friend be trying to find more constructive ways of dealing with his anger issues? Video games aren't going to be around him 24-7, after all. It kind of reminds me of someone who takes a morphine shot every day for something that could be fixed with a little chiropraction or minor surgery... isn't there a more constructive solution?

But I'm no doctor, I'm no psychaitrist, and the games are kind of fun. I've never been the type for violent video games myself (I'm the old school "Super Mario" type, if anything, there's a certain appeal for little kid's games that involve crushing giant walking mushrooms and turtles that fly), but my friend actually had me sit down and play a few rounds with him after a particularly grueling study session. I was very pleasantly surprised... and anyone who knows me can tell you I'm anything but a violent person, but I actually had fun.

Still, I think video games are overhyped, and if I ever have kids, I want enough so that they can all play "Tag" and "Hide and Seek" outside and not feel like idiots when the other kids look at them from their TV sets. At least my kids will be in shape...

I'm going to try my best to keep my children away from violence in video games. I'm going to make them go outside and shoot at each other with actual toy guns like in the good old days.

Do realistic violent games de-senisitze people undoubtably, is the immature mind more likely to be confused by the convergance between the real and the fantastic absolutely quid pro quo argument is conclusive.

The experience of individuals in this context is entirely irrelevant, it may well be that individuals and their offspring can entirely put the game into the right context - indeed it is a bit worrying if adults cannot - but that does not mean that the behaviour of specific individuals can lead us to make any assumptions about a sociey/culture let alone a specis, if that was the case we could base our laws on the assumption that we are all St Francis of Assisi.

I would suggest that what UK & European research has shown is that violent film tends to make people more agressive where as dirty movies make them more relaxed.

There is also a lot of data which demonstrates that the US is more tolerant of violence in film than they are of sex/naughty words - which is the more violent society.

I rest my case

I have started another thread dealing with the direct relationship between poor health and video games. It was inpsired by this article in todays paper:

http://www.detnews.com/2005/editorial/0 ... 264403.htm

The thread is titled Unhealthy and Lazy American Kids. The most startling statistic found is this

in 1963, just 4% of boys and 5% of girls were obese
in 2003 the figures leaped to 17% and 15%

check out the full article and thread for more.

ANYTHING (even exercise) done to extremes is unhealthy. Even the most positive activities can become negative taken to extremes.

Exercise can cause tissue damage and damage bone after a certain point.
Video games can remove a person's thought processes from reality.
Socializing can prevent a person from following through on their responsibilities.

They should not be banned, simply moderated. As long as a child has met their responsibilities and remains in good health, video games are an acceptable reward for positive behavior.

I can not deny the possibility that video-games might trigger violence in extreme cases ( meaning a mentally sick or otherwisely exhausted person ), but in general they do no harm. They are, at least, an interactive form of entertainment - one has to be active rather than merely passive. Television, on the other hand, is the bigger contributor to laziness / violence among children - or that is my view at least. In video-games you usually have choices, and *even* in Grand Theft Auto you can decide whether to jack a car and kill people or try to go by the law. When you are watching television, you are viewing an already finished product. GTA is also a very 'cartooney' video-game - one that people instantly recognize as a video-game rather than an account of actual events. Video-games are becoming more and more realistic graphic-wise, and what people are afraid is probably the fact that someday in the future brain will not be able to distinguish a virtual world from the real. Then, ladies and gentlemen, we are in trouble. Not yet.

Video-games are only a single factor - like somebody already said - contributing to the obesity and general laziness of children today. The greater danger lies in the life-style which is taught by the media, the society and the parents. Fast, quick fixes of pleasure - easy, lazy life-styles and the like. But then again we are doing *pretty* well as a whole. Obesity might be a problem in America, but it isn't so common in Europe - whatever the reasons for that are. We have burger-joints around here as well, you know.

There hasn't been a single generation which hasn't found the life-style of the newer generation shocking, though - not in a long time, at least. It is just a psychological phenomenon - the need to find the bad sides from the life-styles of the young folk. I, too, have been an avid gamer all my life, and everything has turned out fine. I think, I philosophize, I observe the world and I act. I also excersize. But that's just me, period.

My grandsons got a new video game the other day: Harvest Moon.

I nearly fell off my chair. It's about FARMING. The game is about farming. They love it!!!!!

They chose it, not me. I'd never heard of it. I can only imagine what their reaction would have been if I'd bought it and given it to them: here, boys, here's a cool game, it's about farming! Buying chickens and making hay and what not! Man, they would have puked.

As it is, they love it. I don't know what the end of the game is, and neither of them has reached it yet. If there is an "end". The only video game I've ever played is PacMan. So that shows you how au courant I am!


They had Grand Theft Auto Vice City and the other one, not San Andreas, and I took them away from them. They are 8 and 10. I did not like the language and the theme of the games. Not the violence per se, but the thugs and ho's, etc., and the whole tone. Not appropriate for their age group and I could slap the uncle who bought the Grand Theft games for them.

vison, I would go as far as to say that your grandsons have a great taste in games! Harvest Moon is a legendary farming-game-brand - and *very* addictive at that. I don't know how, but they have made farming, making virtual friends ( and girlfriends ) a very appealing way to waste time

The game has no specific end - it just goes on and on as long as one wishes it to.

There are other games for the Gamecube in a similar genre. Animal Crossing is very fun once you get the hang of it and there is practically no violence involved (unless you count cutting down trees with an axe). You can't even smack people who upset you.

Pikmin is another brand that is good for kids. It has comical violence at best and has some pretty challenging puzzle-solving in it. It also teaches resource management and teamwork (especially in the second version). The puzzle-solving isn't required to beat the game, but if you want to find EVERYTHING you'll have to be pretty clever.

In terms of constructive video games, Yourself! Fitness is a 'game' of a kind that really gets children exercising. DDR is similar but kind of rough on your floor, and not to be played on 2nd floor rooms.

There are a lot of games that are far more productive than GTA. I have no intention on buying GTA for any reason. It just doesn't appeal to me. I like Halo's incarnations, but mostly just because I love the story and the characters in it than any real desire to play a 'shooter'.

Well, I'll be switched. A "legendary" game, eh? I'll have to look into the other ones mentioned.

They have both versions of Halo, and they like it ok, but I think they like their Tony Hawk games more. And the NHL and Baseball games.

Speaking of kids playing, they are playing Lego right now behind the couch and have been for about an hour. They'd been out in the sun too long this morning. Lego has to be the best toy ever.

Although they also rode dirtbikes for an hour and played Harvest Moon before breakfast, and went in the pool...........

They are very *sigh* active kids. They keep Grandma and Grandpa hopping, let me tell you.

I just came from a friend's house - we played a couple of tight matches of Pro Evolution Soccer 3 ( a certain very addictive football-title ). Sports games, in general, are much more fun with a friend ( or two ), and they really give you a great pastime if you and your fellow players are deeply focused. They only serve as competetive platforms, and contain no violence what-so-ever.

Animal Crossing is a blast - it is almost like a live journal in a bizarre universe of big-headed block-people I am waiting for the DS -version of the title ( so that I can take it along with me wherever I decide to go ).

Halo -games are great for those who love First Person Shooters.

For GameCube, I would definetely recommend Metroid Prime - a great adventure / FPS -title - and Super Smash Bros. Melee ( a very fun fighting game ).