board77

The Last Homely Site on the Web

Oh sleep, why dost thou leave me?

Post Reply   Page 3 of 4  [ 61 posts ]
Jump to page « 1 2 3 4 »
Author Message
LalaithUrwen
Post subject: Re: Oh sleep, why dost thou leave me?
Posted: Fri 30 Oct , 2015 1:44 am
The Grey Amaretto as Supermega-awesome Proud Heretic Girl
Offline
 
Posts: 21756
Joined: Thu 24 Feb , 2005 3:46 pm
 
So what do you think it is?

_________________

[ img ]


Top
Profile Quote
Jude
Post subject: Re: Oh sleep, why dost thou leave me?
Posted: Fri 30 Oct , 2015 10:28 pm
Aspiring to heresy
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 19651
Joined: Wed 23 Feb , 2005 6:54 pm
Location: Canada
 
Well, looking through this thread it looks like it always happens around this time of year and then takes care of itself. So, no need to worry, I'll just wait it out.

Perhaps the change in daylight mimics changing time zones, so I'm getting "jetlagged" without actually travelling?

_________________

[ img ]

Melkor and Ungoliant in need of some relationship counselling.


Top
Profile Quote
LalaithUrwen
Post subject: Re: Oh sleep, why dost thou leave me?
Posted: Mon 02 Nov , 2015 12:44 am
The Grey Amaretto as Supermega-awesome Proud Heretic Girl
Offline
 
Posts: 21756
Joined: Thu 24 Feb , 2005 3:46 pm
 
Some sort of evolutionary leftover for hibernation perhaps?

_________________

[ img ]


Top
Profile Quote
Jude
Post subject: Re: Oh sleep, why dost thou leave me?
Posted: Mon 02 Nov , 2015 3:03 am
Aspiring to heresy
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 19651
Joined: Wed 23 Feb , 2005 6:54 pm
Location: Canada
 
:scratch: I understood each of those individual words, but the filtration emphasis morphed the tome in an antiphonal fashion.

_________________

[ img ]

Melkor and Ungoliant in need of some relationship counselling.


Top
Profile Quote
yovargas
Post subject: Re: Oh sleep, why dost thou leave me?
Posted: Mon 02 Nov , 2015 3:11 am
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 14774
Joined: Thu 24 Feb , 2005 12:11 pm
 
Deepak Chopra, is that you?


Top
Profile Quote
LalaithUrwen
Post subject: Re: Oh sleep, why dost thou leave me?
Posted: Mon 02 Nov , 2015 3:14 pm
The Grey Amaretto as Supermega-awesome Proud Heretic Girl
Offline
 
Posts: 21756
Joined: Thu 24 Feb , 2005 3:46 pm
 
What? That makes perfect sense, doesn't it?

:scratch:

Our ancestors hibernated (maybe). You get tired this time of year or wake up a lot at weird hours or something. Your brain is remembering its long ago past of hibernation.

?
:shrug: I got nothing. :uhoh:

_________________

[ img ]


Top
Profile Quote
Jude
Post subject: Re: Oh sleep, why dost thou leave me?
Posted: Mon 02 Nov , 2015 3:20 pm
Aspiring to heresy
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 19651
Joined: Wed 23 Feb , 2005 6:54 pm
Location: Canada
 
Okay, now I understand.

Do we know that our ancestors hibernated? I assumed that hibernation developed after species moved away from the equator to regions that have winters where food is not available. Since we're a fairly recent import from Africa, did we have time to develop hibernation, and then abandon it?

This is all speculation on my part. If any scientists are reading this, feel free to jump in and set us straight!

_________________

[ img ]

Melkor and Ungoliant in need of some relationship counselling.


Top
Profile Quote
aninkling
Post subject: Re: Oh sleep, why dost thou leave me?
Posted: Mon 02 Nov , 2015 5:12 pm
Offline
 
Posts: 2048
Joined: Fri 10 Aug , 2012 4:42 pm
 
I don't think humans -or primates in general - are set up to hibernate. It's a very specialized and prolonged physiological state, and only some mammals can do it. It's been a long time since I studied this material (way back in some college course on environmental adaptations), but we evolved in Africa, where food, etc. is available year-round and there's pretty much no point to hibernation.

Doesn't mean we don't get sleepier in the winter, but that's different.

Edit: I was curious where mammals in general first evolved - looks like it was in the north.
http://science.nationalgeographic.com/s ... e-mammals/
Quote:
Based on the known fossil record, scientists believed that the ancestors of mammals alive today emerged in the north, and then migrated south, all the way to Antarctica and Australia, as land bridges episodically developed between the continents.
And it looks like a couple of primates (all lemurs in Madagascar) do hibernate - though a little differently than animals in cold climates. Apparently, they live in a climate where their usual food and water sources are in short supply for several months. http://today.duke.edu/2013/05/hibernation

_________________

Society can and does execute its own mandates, and if it issues wrong mandates instead of right, or any mandates at all in things with it ought not to meddle, it practices a social tyranny more formidable than many kinds of political oppression, since, though not usually upheld by such extreme penalties, it leaves fewer means of escape, penetrating much more deeply into the details of life, and enslaving the soul itself. ― John Stuart Mill


Top
Profile Quote
Dave_LF
Post subject: Re: Oh sleep, why dost thou leave me?
Posted: Mon 02 Nov , 2015 6:57 pm
You are hearing me talk
Offline
 
Posts: 2950
Joined: Mon 28 Feb , 2005 8:14 am
Location: Great Lakes
 
Humans have never hibernated, as far as anyone knows. And we've only lived at latitude for tens of thousands of years*, which is not long enough to develop any serious adaptations to it. Some populations do seem to have a few less-than-serious adaptations to the seasons, though. SAD and manic depression are both over-represented in northern ethnic groups, for example, and both are speculated to be either incomplete adaptations to daylength fluctuation or cases where an emerging adaptation goes wrong due to (e.g.) poor interaction with another trait or too much of a good thing.

Whether any of that has any relevance to fall-onset insomnia is another question. But given that night eventually gets to be something like 16 hours long at thoroughly-inhabited latitudes, maybe people start to shift to a "two sleeps" pattern as winter approaches?

*Though it's entirely possible that the first H. sapiens to settle the north could have picked up some adaptive genes from Neanderthals, who'd been living there for hundreds of thousands of years.


Top
Profile Quote
MariaHobbit
Post subject: Re: Oh sleep, why dost thou leave me?
Posted: Mon 02 Nov , 2015 8:50 pm
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 8039
Joined: Thu 03 Feb , 2005 2:39 pm
Location: MO
 
I wonder how my summer S.A.D. works in that theory? Days too long!!! Far too hot!! Can't stand it!!!


Top
Profile Quote
aninkling
Post subject: Re: Oh sleep, why dost thou leave me?
Posted: Mon 02 Nov , 2015 10:44 pm
Offline
 
Posts: 2048
Joined: Fri 10 Aug , 2012 4:42 pm
 
Dave LF wrote:
And we've only lived at latitude for tens of thousands of years*, which is not long enough to develop any serious adaptations to it.
Or probably any reason to (at least in reference to hibernation). Tool use and/or moving seasonally seem like better options, if possible. Hibernation involves a big trade-off - you're essentially vulnerable and had better have an excellent hiding place while you do it. Plus, you lose energy stores/weight during hibernation. And you're giving up months of activity, which for humans also includes things like acquiring and retaining power/status, and reproduction (assuming that wasn't seasonal for our distant ancestors).


Maria, I don't know, but I feel the same way about hot summers. Especially the muggy ones. Fall is such a relief. And I love cool, or even cold temps for sleeping - provided I have a warm comforter, of course.

_________________

Society can and does execute its own mandates, and if it issues wrong mandates instead of right, or any mandates at all in things with it ought not to meddle, it practices a social tyranny more formidable than many kinds of political oppression, since, though not usually upheld by such extreme penalties, it leaves fewer means of escape, penetrating much more deeply into the details of life, and enslaving the soul itself. ― John Stuart Mill


Top
Profile Quote
LalaithUrwen
Post subject: Re: Oh sleep, why dost thou leave me?
Posted: Tue 03 Nov , 2015 2:32 am
The Grey Amaretto as Supermega-awesome Proud Heretic Girl
Offline
 
Posts: 21756
Joined: Thu 24 Feb , 2005 3:46 pm
 
Oh, goodness. I was joking! :P I don't have enough extra brain power to give serious thought to any damn thing these days! :(

(But the background info is interesting, of course. Thanks.)

_________________

[ img ]


Top
Profile Quote
Frelga
Post subject: Re: Oh sleep, why dost thou leave me?
Posted: Thu 05 Nov , 2015 6:54 pm
A green apple painted red
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 4621
Joined: Thu 17 Mar , 2005 9:11 pm
Location: Out on the banks
 
What, you thought people here won't use your post as an excuse for geeking out?
Sometimes I think I'd be on board with hibernation. But nah, life is short enough already.

_________________

GNU Terry Pratchett


Top
Profile Quote
LalaithUrwen
Post subject: Re: Oh sleep, why dost thou leave me?
Posted: Fri 06 Nov , 2015 2:23 am
The Grey Amaretto as Supermega-awesome Proud Heretic Girl
Offline
 
Posts: 21756
Joined: Thu 24 Feb , 2005 3:46 pm
 
I should've expected it, but I wasn't being the least bit serious, really. I was thinking hibernation in a non-literal way.

:P

Literalists! :help:

_________________

[ img ]


Top
Profile Quote
Jude
Post subject: Re: Oh sleep, why dost thou leave me?
Posted: Fri 06 Nov , 2015 2:54 am
Aspiring to heresy
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 19651
Joined: Wed 23 Feb , 2005 6:54 pm
Location: Canada
 
*snerk* I once wrote a novel that involved a group of mooses. It wasn't a major plot point, but they let slip to their kids that mooses are a hibernating species, just to get five or six months of peace and quiet. They weren't even the main characters, they sort of sat on the sidelines and observed my great-grandmother making a mess of things.

Hadn't thought of that book in years, but all this talk of hibernation made me think of it out of the blue...

_________________

[ img ]

Melkor and Ungoliant in need of some relationship counselling.


Top
Profile Quote
Frelga
Post subject: Re: Oh sleep, why dost thou leave me?
Posted: Fri 06 Nov , 2015 4:03 am
A green apple painted red
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 4621
Joined: Thu 17 Mar , 2005 9:11 pm
Location: Out on the banks
 
Gotta love a post that begins with "I once wrote a novel."

_________________

GNU Terry Pratchett


Top
Profile Quote
Jude
Post subject: Re: Oh sleep, why dost thou leave me?
Posted: Fri 06 Nov , 2015 2:37 pm
Aspiring to heresy
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 19651
Joined: Wed 23 Feb , 2005 6:54 pm
Location: Canada
 
It would be even more impressive if I started it with "I once wrote a best-selling novel that is about to be made into a movie starring Nathan Fillion as Samuel and Frelga as Eleanor".

The other day, I read that supplementing with Magnesium can help with sleep. I'm gonna give that a try...

_________________

[ img ]

Melkor and Ungoliant in need of some relationship counselling.


Top
Profile Quote
Dave_LF
Post subject: Re: Oh sleep, why dost thou leave me?
Posted: Thu 05 Oct , 2017 12:13 pm
You are hearing me talk
Offline
 
Posts: 2950
Joined: Mon 28 Feb , 2005 8:14 am
Location: Great Lakes
 
I've been in autumn-onset insomnia mode for the last couple weeks, but last night some dam must have broken because I essentially passed out at 7:30 and slept through to morning. And now I feel great! You don't fully realize how much sleeplessness has eaten away at you until you finally get some rest and can see the difference. I'm lucky last night was one where I could afford to go to bed early, though I'm sure knowing it was was a factor in why it happened.

ETA: Now that I have a Fitbit, I can add a little more data to this discussion. In addition to having a much larger number of measurable "awake/restless" periods during the night the past few weeks, my heart rate hasn't been falling as low during sleep as it did during the summer.


Top
Profile Quote
Dave_LF
Post subject: Re: Oh sleep, why dost thou leave me?
Posted: Thu 05 Oct , 2017 7:46 pm
You are hearing me talk
Offline
 
Posts: 2950
Joined: Mon 28 Feb , 2005 8:14 am
Location: Great Lakes
 
In a weird little coincidence, after bumping this thread this morning, I came across an article arguing that human responses to seasonal light levels are probably inherited from Neanderthals, who'd been living at high latitude for millions of years when modern humans first encountered them:
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/world ... djLM4GcRK/
I speculated about that very thing in this thread 2 years ago... :suspicious:


Top
Profile Quote
Dave_LF
Post subject: Re: Oh sleep, why dost thou leave me?
Posted: Fri 05 Oct , 2018 3:23 pm
You are hearing me talk
Offline
 
Posts: 2950
Joined: Mon 28 Feb , 2005 8:14 am
Location: Great Lakes
 
I really have to credit this thread with cluing me in to the fact that this happens every year at the start of October


Top
Profile Quote
Display: Sort by: Direction:
Post Reply   Page 3 of 4  [ 61 posts ]
Return to “The Turf” | Jump to page « 1 2 3 4 »
Jump to: