board77

Here are the final results:

There were 69 total votes. Any additional votes cast will not be counted. For each choice I will show the total number of votes for that choice, the percentage of the total votes that chose that choice; the total including carryover, and the important figure, the percentage of the total vote including carry over. All numbers are rounded off to the nearest integer.

1. As soon as the charter provisions regarding the admins are ratified;
[ 15 ] 22%

2. As soon as the charter provisions regarding dispute resolution are ratified;
[ 3 ] 4% [ 18 ] 26%

3. As soon as the charter provisions regarding members rights and responsibilities are ratified;
[ 24 ] 35% [ 42 ] 61%

4. As soon as the charter provisions regarding the mission statement, purpose and goals are ratified;
[ 11 ] 16% [ 53 ] 77%

5. As soon as the charter provisions regarding the office of the Mayor are ratified;
[ 2 ] 3% [ 55 ] 80%

6. As soon as the charter provisions regarding the ownership of the board are ratified;
[ 10 ] 15% [ 65 ] 94%


7. I do not want board77 to open in the foreseeable future.
[ 4 ] 6%


A couple of comments.

FIrst, the actual exact total percentage for the winning choice (including carryover, of course) was 79.710%. I can't believe that anyone would challenge rounding this off to 80%, but if anyone does, post here or let me know privately.

Second, I must note the irony that the "consensus" was reached at the choice that was picked by the fewest number of people. A very credible argument could be made that the real consensus was for choice no. 4, since a significant number of people chose it and it's aggregate total came close to the 80% mark. Still, I think that based on the rules that we set, the clear choise is number 5, since it had the magical 80% mark virtually exactly.

As an indication of just how close this vote was, the last vote, presumably cast by Silwen at just about 30 minutes before the poll closed, made the difference between choice no. 5 and choice no. 6. Thank you so much to everyone who voted. I think it was a significant enough showing to be a realistic barometer of the board's total membership.

My final comment: fully 94% of those who voted want board77 to open at the latest when the convention process is completed. That is, I think, a signficant mandate. However, I really want the voices of those who are concerned about what will happen when the board opens to be heard, and listened to too. So my last words will be to once again thank Din for having the courage to speak up.

And if anyone notices any flaws in my calculations, please PLEASE speak up!

I just wanted to thank you for starting this process, Voronwe. Not only do we know that we're opening, and when (roughly) we're opening, but the air has been cleared.

I agree, though, that the concerns of those who voted against opening are important, and I also thank Din for speaking up.

But for now, :cheers ! to everyone who voted here and in the charter ratification. Things are sure moving along now!

w00t w00t!





It's done!
Voronwe, thank you for bringing this poll to fruition and conclusion.

Yes, Three Cheers for Voronwe!

ok, three cheerleaders for Voronwe.



Jn

Voronwe_the_Faithful wrote:

. So my last words will be to once again thank Din for having the courage to speak up.

I just wanted to say thanks to all of you who commented on my comments. I will admit my origional post was quite a struggle to write, and tough to say. I am glad that it got such posertive results and understanding, and gives me great faith in the lot of you.

And oddly, I am quite pleased with the result of the vote.

I think I just need to make a little chipmunk nest someplace here and hide my nuts with the community at large.

Thank you all, you have no idea what this means to me. I will do my utmost to give this place the attention and love it needs.

Oh yeh, and Veronwe, you da man :cheers

Folks, one member posted an objection to rounding the total percentage for choice 5 up to 80% and declaring it the winning choice. The member has since withdraw the objection, but still feels that without having stated explicitly in the beginning of the poll that the percentages would be rounded to the nearest integer, it compromises the validity of this vote (and the integrity of board77 votes in general).

Even though the member withdrew the objection, it is my feeling that it would be contrary to board77's spirit to ignore that an objection was made and declare choice no. 5 the winner without further discussion. I'm not going to reveal who made the objection other then to say that it is someone who's integrity I trust implicitly. However, I would certainly urge the member to make her or his views known if he or she wishes to do so.

My own feeling is that rounding to the nearest integer is such a common practice that it did not need to be stated explicitly in the beginning. I also believe that under these circumstances, declaring choice no. 5, with 79.7%, the winner, is much more fair then declaring choice no. 6, with 94+% the winner. The former is so close to being exactly the amount that we had agreed would constitute a consensus that it seems to me that it would be contrary to the spirit of the vote to have to go all the way to the next choice, which is so much higher then the minimum number that we had set.

However, it is well known that I am anxious to open as soon as is feasibly possible. I try to be as objective as possible, but I am as human as the next person. Its possible that this objection has more validity then I am allowing myself to see. In any rate I thought that the most reasonable thing to do would be to encourage others to express their thoughts about this, and see if there are other people who feel that declaring no. 5 the winner after rounding up to 80% compromises the validity of this vote, or the integrity of voting at board77 in general.

Thanks for your input!

We're talking about 0.3% here right? If so, I think rounding up is definately the appropriate thing to do.

I saw this coming and hoped my vote would make the balance... this is the reason why I voted so late.

I agree with rounding up, but I am as biased as you are, Voronwë.

I'm biased, too, in favor of opening soon—I am seeing friends leave B77 out of boredom, which hurts. But I honestly didn't see anything wrong with the way Voronwe handled the results—it didn't even occur to me to wonder.

On scientific or rational principles I agree with the objection. 79 point something is not 80 percent. It is tempting to make it 80%, especially when that means the choice many of us involved ( self included ) has been hoping for, gets achieved.

I stop my thoughts there and ask myself, if I bend rules for my own desire, if I say "rounding up is accepted practice, it is fine, it is so close to being there" ... what is the next thing that will be "good enough" for me? Where does the drop in my "standards" end? What would I have done if it was reversed, if option 6 was the option I wanted? Would I have said: "Och, not quite 80% ... sorry"? I think I would have done that, and gone for option 6 then. I'm human, after all.

My bottom line? I struggle to get there, I am not articulate. My bottom line for this situation is, I see harm in accepting option 5, and I see harm in not accepting it. The kind of harm is different. Which kind is accepted seems to be a decision made already, judging by the comments this thread has received so far.

Let it be, then. Option 5 wins by popular consent. Not the choice I feel is right, but it is like the thread over in Symposium about enforcing laws that cause moral conflict, this discussion. I feel I betray myself by saying I will be fine with option 5, since I don't feel too comfortable with that, but I don't want harm to the board, or people thinking I want to harm it, either. I'll take my personal discomfort over causing discomfort to others by insisting that my view must be followed.

And please, put a concrete rule in place, here and everywhere people being people may look for the loophole to let their will be done. Or try and close loopholes as much as possible, at least. I know it is a fiendishly difficult task, but it will avoid things like this in future.

There may not be much difference between Option 5 and Option 6 as a practical matter.

Voronwe has been kind enough to take over as discussion leader for the charter committee, and the discussion of the Mayor's office and the ownership plan for the board will be concurrent discussions. I think it very likely that they will be completed within a single time frame. If one lags behind the other by a few days, I doubt there will be objection to finishing both for the sake of achieving a completely transparent and unsurprising process.

Voronwe and I were discussing this yesterday, and I told him I would post my thoughts about the rounding issue if I had time today. In my humble opinion, Option 5 is mathematically correct. One may not have more decimal places in a quotient than existed in the dividend and divisor. 80% of 69 votes is 55 votes, and that is what Option 5 achieved.

However, a large number of people voted for Option 6, and it is reasonable, imo, to question their intentions. We do not know yet who will actually own the board in terms of accountability and liability, and I don't think we want to establish by default that every Johnny who walks in from the street becomes an owner from day one. Although I voted for an earlier option myself, I do think it would be wise to heed those who might have been thinking along those lines of ultimate accountability.

And, as I said, I don't think there is going to be any practical difference between these two options.

Jn

I have no major objections, though I do see the point about rounding. I got my choice anyway.

So, how are we going to decide this little dillemma (hmm, for some reason I can't remember how to spell that word tonight)?

Jn - math question.

Quote:

One may not have more decimal places in a quotient than existed in the dividend and divisor. 80% of 69 votes is 55 votes, and that is what Option 5 achieved.

I agree, not more decimal places in the quotient than the dividend and divisor sound sensible. I vaguely remember that one then divides by 69.000000 by 55.000000 if you'd like to consider the result to six decimal places, and whatnot. Is that correct?

Er, we are talking about real people here, aren't we?

If there are 69 voters, 80% of the voters is 55 people, not 55 people plus an arm and two fingers. Rounding is appropriate when dealing with units that don't like to be divided into smaller pieces.

Just my 2 cents.

laureanna - maybe it should have been 56 then, because rounding could be said to add that arm and two fingers to get to 80%.

I just add that to air out a possible counter-argument to that. I don't really think that picking over the technicalities will help the board, as I stated in the post above.

Griff

The original units were whole numbers. Adding zeroes at the end does not change them into fractions. But I also think the rounding issue is beside the point because we're probably going to finish 5 and 6 at the same time.

Voronwe is not going to postpone the discussion of 6 just so that we can open after 5 but not after 6. They'll be done together and there's a chance that 6 will even be finished first.

Jn

Quote:

there's a chance that 6 will even be finished first.

Quick another poll!

(runs from angry mom with torches and pitchforks)

whittles point on end of stick



Jn

Actually, I meant to say "mob" but I like "mom" enough to leave it.

I think it is highly likely that the "Mayor" article and the "ownership" article will go to the membership for ratification at the same time. Then both 5 an 6 will have "won" and everyone will be happy.