board77

Axordil wrote:

th--

Quote:

but as things stand now the board is going to open up one day, no further vote needed!

I think that's one view of things.

No, it's not - sorry, Ax!
Like I said, I doubt we are going to have a new vote on accepting the constitution for each 100 new members or so - this is the same thing. The question was decided on before you came here.
If you wish to object to the terms as they stand, you can do so, of course.

How do you define 'resolved'?

th--
Since the charter is the governing document, and it is currently being worked on, I would say that the question is being decided now. Informal decisions that took place before the charter may or may not be included in it, as with the preliminary admin rules. As of this moment, every decision made so far is de facto informal, and will be until the charter is ratified.

I dont want to start a war here and am trying my best to be good and pass along proper hugs but I do want my opinion understood, which so far i dont think it is.. I dont even see a reason for a poll. I just want to disuss things.. to talk about it.. to hear others point of views. maybe one of them will cause me to alter my opinion. maybe mine will cause someone to alter theirs. I realize the board cant open immediatly. maybe it never will open. who knows. but i see no harm in discussing it. If you dont want to talk about it you dont have to come in the thread. we arent making any decisions we are all just chatting about it. It has no bearing what so ever on what happens in the convention threads.

One of the main reasons many of us left torc was because we felt that we weren't allowed to express ourselves. that opinions were being supressed or punished. I dont want to see that happen here and its why I am fighing so hard for this. it doesnt mean I am against any of you. it doesnt mean I cant go right into another thread in turf and tease leoba.. though she better leave my speedo alone or there will be hell to pay I just want to be sure that we all get to discuss things... openly.. when ever we choose, without crushing the opinion of others. If no one wants to discuss this, then we wouldnt have 7 pages and counting of info here. if you want to have a poll, fine. have a poll and I will vote. but please, lets keep the discussion open and moving forward as well.. yes we get off topic sometimes, but thats ok. we manage to work our way back eventually. it doesnt hurt anything. this isnt a binding thread..

Voronwe, people do need to know what they're voting for. Maybe something like "(details such as schedule and methods of registering new members to be decided by later votes)" could be added? People might be more comfortable voting for something indefinite if they're sure thay'll have a voice in firming it up later.

Edit: Gimli, I think everyone would agree that discussion is fine, as long as we don't lose sight of the work of creating the constitution.

I like the poll that Ax suggested. Not only would it allow us to know if people want the board opened immediately after the constitution is ratified, but also will allow them to begin thinking about how they would have the transition occur.

So gimli, by all means discuss! I thought that's what had been going on for the past 7 pages (more if you count the thread that started this).

Voronwe_the_Faithful wrote:

Quote:

Do you favor opening the board as soon as the Constitution is ratified (or possibly within a month of the Constitution being ratified). Yes or No.

And I want the results to be binding, not advisory. I would be happy to leave the details of exactly what being open means for a later date. But I want to see a firm committment to open the boards as soon as the governance issues are resolved, not in some undefined future date.

I find this rather odd. I presumed that the nature of the board's registration/invite process will be worked out in the Constitution. I also presumed that when we vote for a Constitution, that the rules in that Constitution would take place as soon as it was passed. Therefore, I presumed that whatever the rules for registration/invitation are in the Constitution would take effect as soon as the rest of it does. Why would it work any other way? Isn't the point of ratifying the Constitution to start using the processess it will outline?

well yov. yes and no.. we are working on some of those topics.. well, havent come to them all yet, but will be. but we kind of need a directions. as Jn said. Why bother with a convention at all if the majority want a closed board. and of course. in the end it is all subject to the members approval. We are just trying to whittle it down so there arent 17 different ideas in everyplace. We have a hard enough time staying on topic with just the few of us.. can you imagine if the whole boards put their say in to each thing we'd still be working on what to call it.. Jn is showing a lot of patience with us because most of us are generaly stupid in this respect I dont have a clue what is going on half the time. I just read what others say and ad my two cents in where i think they are needed mostly i just like to see my words on the screen

er.. what are we calling it?

What are we calling it ... I've been referring to it as a Charter, but if people want to call it something else that's fine with me. But I don't want to get sidetracked discussing the name!!!! We can decide on a name last.

The invitation process is not on the agenda for the Charter because I have been working from the supposition that we are designing the charter for an open board. But there is a whole section of the agenda - new by laws - that hasn't been filled in yet. Any member of the committee can propose things for the agenda. I've not ignored or left out anything that has been proposed by anyone else. But I do want to do the agenda in order.

The stuff we are discussing now is actually a rehash of things already decided in the business forum threads. I thought we would just fill in the existing loopholes but people are quibbling over just about every word. That's fine. We're allowed to do that. But it does prolong the process.

Jn

luckily we are moving forward at the moment...


I'm still confused though. i really wanted a dictatorship...

Axordil wrote:

th--
Since the charter is the governing document, and it is currently being worked on, I would say that the question is being decided now. Informal decisions that took place before the charter may or may not be included in it, as with the preliminary admin rules. As of this moment, every decision made so far is de facto informal, and will be until the charter is ratified.

From what I can see the constitutional discussion will not be about whether to open the boards or not - the reason being, I assume, that this is one thing that is already decided. However, if it were not final yet, and hence part of the constitutional discussion, we would not be discussing it here, right? Anything to do with the charter is first to be discussed in the convention!

So, the way I see it: either this is decided already, (in which case people doubting that should have been told so more clearly - I think this whole discussion arose from people not being aware that it was never in doubt that we would open up) - or, if it is not, the question to be answered is whether this is a matter for the constitutional convention or not - because if it is, this thread can't result in a binding decision either, it can only give ideas to be taken into account in the convention.

Teh Magna Carta? Woot!!11

Not that anyone cares, but I was never for opening to public.

Sorry, I am not, if i would vote ever. For many reasons, just I never participated in any of the discussions as I dont feel I could get my point acros well enough, and as clearly as the opposition.


Just felt i had to add that, sorry, carry on.

This thread was never intended for binding decision, even when it had a poll attached. It was intended to advise the convention.

Axordil wrote:

Teh Magna Carta? Woot!!11

What's Latin for "Lesser Charter"?

Okay, so the way I see it, the vast majority are okay with the board opening and the quibbling details of that should simply (or probably not so simply for those doing the work) be a part of the Constitution. So Teh Magna Carta will state that we are fully open, or open with vetoes, or open with brief registration periods or whatever. Then, once the Consitution is passed, we start using those rules. Everyone okay with that? Yes? Good.

Now that that's all settled, we can reserve this thread for the purpose hugging admins.

for the admins

I don't think it is something we are looking at now.. but yea.. obviously at some point everyone will have to vote on it and it will be included... The reason for this thread I think was like ax said.. just so we could all get a feel for things and see where it was going... I'm pleasantly surprised that people do seem to be a lot more willing to have an open board than I previously thought. Seems this thread is serving a purpose after all.

and your opinion is perfectly valid Maeglin.. we want to hear all opinions.

Or even "OK chareter?

Primula_Baggins wrote:

Axordil wrote:

Teh Magna Carta? Woot!!11

What's Latin for "Lesser Charter"?

Minor Carta?

damn smarty people...