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It's a sunshiny day and the skies are blue, and everything is fine, except I'm a Polish Catholic and the Pope is dying.

I'm finding it hard to compose myself. My gut reaction is to be relieved, because he really deserves this rest that only God can give him. But at the same time, how can I not grieve?
And why am I grieving, when he is not yet gone?

I have a guilty feeling, I don't know where to focus. I don't know whether I'm more worried about the Pope dying, or about how all hell will break loose over here when he does. I am ready to panic- I don't know how to react. And yet I keep telling myself, react as you feel...and react when it's time to do so.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/04 ... index.html CNN says this much, but the latest news is that the Pope is, in fact, in a coma.

According to tradition, Peter's pontificate lasted twenty-five years, and some see this as the boundary for any Pope. No, we didn't think he would live forever, did we...or did we take him for granted.

It's hard to cope with this.

I don't really want a debate on religion or whether he should have abdicated or whether he matters at all if people all around the world are suffering more than he is...I think you can understand that. I need a little help in getting my head around this. Maybe a prayer would be a good start...

Comiserating ((((((((hugs)))))))) ro... I posted in lj about this... Im stunned that its affecting me this much
Sigh...

A coma now? That not good.... let me turn on the tv again here....

It says on cnn "Pope collapsed in cardiovasculatory shock".....

Well, I just checked again and it's still denied by the Vatican, so perhaps he isn't.

Ench...I'm not surprised it's affecting you... you're a caring and good person, and so you feel the loss of other caring and good people...

It's an odd moment all right. Even heathen little creatures like myself are feeling it. He became Pope when I was 3 months old and has always to me seemed one of those constants in the world.

It's always a sad time when someone shuffles off this mortal coil; I wish him peace.

As a Christian from another tradition I'm sure not if John Paul II and I would agree about everything.

But that doesn't detract in the least from the fact that he is a genuinely godly and spiritual man and has been a remarkable figure on the world stage over the last 26 years.

It's been sad to watch him suffering and I very much admire his bravery and determination to speak to his people.

I was praying for him just now and I hope the end, when it comes, will be peaceful and painless.

(((Rodia))))

I saw the Pope in Boston, many years ago, after he had first been appointed. I remember thinking that you don't often get to see a Pope, and feeling like I wanted to be there. Even in the rain, with almost a million people there on the Common, he was a presence.

I am not Catholic, nor do I agree with much of what the Pope says. However, I have utmost respect for him as a man of genuine faith who not only talks the talk, but also walks the walk...even when the walk becomes supremely difficult.

He is in my prayers today, as are you, Rodia.

I probably should not post this here, but I feel compelled to. I am genuinely sorry to hear that Pope John Paul II is dying, but no more so that for any other basically good man. I believe he is a good man who has held back, or allowed others to hold back the Catholic church. As you requested Rodia, I won't get into a religous or political discussion, but I would question why this man deserves our prayers more than any other.

Alatar

I am not a Catholic and I do not agree with a lot of policies that the Catholic church has. I do not know many things about the life and deeds of Pope John Paul II so I have no positive or negative feelings towards him.

What I see is a frail old man who has been ill for a long time. His body has suffered much and the time has come for him to rest. I hope his passing away to be peaceful.

To Rodia and all the other Catholics who feel saddened and distressed these days, I offer my .
It will look like the end of an era and, as such, can be stressfull, but all things must come to an end. This is necessary for rebirth and continuation of life.

Alatar wrote:

but I would question why this man deserves our prayers more than any other.

Well, the same question might be asked about any person for whom prayers are requested. If your father was dying and you posted about it and asked for prayers, wouldn't you expect people to respond? If not for your father, then for you and your grief?

The Pope is the Father of the Roman Catholic Church and his presence is attached to many emotions, especially if you happen to be Roman Catholic. I find this to be true even with "lapsed" Catholics. He is also the first Polish Pope and so if you are both Polish and a practicing Catholic (like Rodia!), this event will have a serious emotional affect on you.

As human beings, we tend to pray for specific people because we identify with them in some way. When my mother was ill, I prayed for her and asked for others to pray, because she was my mother. Nobody said, "Well, she's just an old woman who is sick, like many other old women. Why does she deserve our prayers more?"

A little compassion, friend.

I don't pray. I never do and did not do so in the fragile moments of my own life or when I was fearing for the life of my son.

I wish Karol Woityla to die in peace with his God and his convictions. I disagree strongly with most of his opinions, but nothing of all this matters when someone suffers physically so much and should just be given rest.

And I adore Rodia. In fact, I almost grieve more for her than for the pope who is a stranger for me. But Rodia is a friend, and it hurts her and this hurt, this pain which his death is for her, it shows me the impact of the pope's life on other people and on her country - after all Poland is where my mother was born too.

Should the pope die today or tomorrow, I would not cry for him - but if I could I would like to hold Rodia and dry her tears. He has lived for people like you - people of his country, sharing his belief. A life like the pope's life would be senseless without you, Rodia.

Ro

Fair points all, I apologize for my insensitivity.

I will add that seeing Pope John Paul II in Ireland in 1979 was an earth shattering experience. The most moving of the occasions was his appearance in Galway which was particularly aimed at the youth of Ireland. Hundreds of Thousands converged on a Racecourse. Church groups, families, youth groups, youth groups and more youth groups. When Pope John Paul II uttered the words "Young People of Ireland, I love You" the outpouring of emotion was staggering and of an order of magnitude greater than any I have seen before or since. That is an experience I will never forget, and for which I will always be grateful. I will focus on that rather than the negatives.

Sorry Rodia.

Alatar

Another American here of Polish ethnicity and brought up Catholic -- in fact I had 12 years of Catholic school and attended at least 3500 Masses during those 12 years. Thats a lot of credit built up.

When the Convocation of Cardinals went outside the Vatican Italian Mafia to pick John Paul II, it was a ground breaking moment. I applaud the Popes advocacy of the poor around the world. I applaud his tireless advocacy for peace all over the world. It is sad that we are about to lose such a powerful voice for those two issues.

However, his record on the debates within Catholic Church is not so glowing. He did nothing to bring the Church into the 21st century regarding such issues as birth control, the role of women in the church, and the Vaticans silence in the molestation scandal for many years was a mini-scandal of its own. He has sided with the conservatives and traditionalists and young people in Europe and America continue to leave the Church in droves.

I have a feeling the Vatican Italian Mafia will win out and one of their inner circle will again be elevated to the position. I really do not care what his ethnicity or nationality is -- just that he be a progressive thinker who will bring the Church into the 21st century.

Ro, I don't know you that well, so forgive me if this question is too personal or painful, but have you ever lost a grandparent? I ask because your opening post pretty much summed up the way I felt after my grandmother passed a couple years ago. She was 80 and had been frail and sickly for a while and then just went into a sudden decline. I was glad to see her suffering end, but sorry to lose her.

You're grieving because the end is near. There's no timeline for grief, nor is grief limited to those that are already dead. There's nothing wrong. Let the tears fall. You'll only hurt yourself if you try to hold them back.

I am not Catholic. I'm not particularily religious at all, really. I did not always agree with the stance the Pope took on issues, but I admired his consistency and steadfastness with his convictions, as well as, in the face of his own personal pain, dedication to his duty and his followers. I mourn for him as well, because he was one of those rare people that is purely good, and it is a very sad thing when good people leave this world.

Thanks for posting this thread Rodia and

I also feel shattered by this - strange, because I thought that I've neither been a particular fan of the Pope nor normally particularly moved by the fate of public figures.

There are quite a few things I admire the Pope for, though, and he's been part of our lives for long enough to make this an event that can't be ignored.

I'm not quite sure, though, why you think hell will break loose and why you feel panicky?

HUGS to Rodia. I'm sad that he is passing, but more than that, I fear that he may be in a "vegetative state" for a long time, thus severely trying the Church's stance on end of life issues. The Church needs strong leadership right now, and this would send it into further turmoil. I do not pray to get John Paul II back - too much of him has died already - but I do pray for strength and clear vision and compassion for the Church.

It appears the Pope is nearing death. All news articles I've read have said his condition is worsening. This is probably for the best, health-wise.

Here is a pretty good article from Time talking about the Pope's legacy.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 14,00.html

I agree with Leoba; he's always been one of those constants in the world, so the idea that he is dying is initially a bit hard to grasp. I'm not Catholic, or even Christian, but I understand that he means a lot to a lot of people.

Im really down about this...
Isnt it ironic.. the Roman Catholic-turned-Pagan me is keeping a set of tealights lit for the Pontiff. I think its a Polish thing, I feel very upset and sad. For those who dont know, I grew up in Poland, and currently the length of my life is split half and half between Poland and Canada. Im foremost Polish before I am Canadian.
Cardinal Karol Wojtyla gave my mom her Confirmation sacrament in Krakow......He has been a total constant in my life too... and its hard to see my mom so sad.
My surviving grandmother who is rather ill is two years younger than him, so this strikes close to home too.

My mom always tells the story of how he became Pope, in 1978... all the bell towers in the Krakow churches started sounding, and people filed out of their homes onto the main square in great joy and much cheering. She tells me how she was there with my dad... and they both rejoiced in the great event. It really meant incredibly much to Poland, especially back then.

Im not a fan of the Vatican, though I appreciate its staying power and grandeur over history...but Karol Wojtyla is a good man... and he's done a lot for His and mine country, Poland.
He's such an icon for us.
My whole life there has been a Polish Pope... I dont know another world.
It will take a lot of adjusting to...
I appreciate him making the "law" that finally let girls be altar servers... its a step... and I appreciate that document he put out years ago apologizing on behalf of the church for the crusades and historical treatment of women (aka. witch hunts). I appreciate what he did for Catholic-Judaist relations. I appreciate his travels.

I greatly admire people who show a passionate zeal for life despite pain and suffering, and JPII has done this in his own way. He has become very inspirational and real through that to many, including me. For the last few years he has lived Christ's suffering and connected in a very real way with the pained, the disadvantaged, the aching, the suffering, and showed himself a model of graceful persistance.... to go on and keep doing something he is passionate about.

I stayed up most of the night watching the news... then when I went to bed in the morning I left the news radio on so I would hear updates when I wake during the night as I sometimes do...

I wish him either a miraculous recovery, or a peaceful passing... the only thing that puts me semi-at ease is that he is likely indeed very serene. A man who has meditated on and spent his whole life exploring the Christian mysteries of suffering and death, and believing absolutely in them, I imagine, is peaceful in his acceptance of Sister Death.

Rodia, I am sure that it must be frightening and sad to lose not only your spiritual leader, but a countryman. My sympathies.