board77

I think my four year old son may have a mild form of autism. He has always been delayed in motor skills, developemental skills, and epecially language skills. He was in therapy from 1-2 years old and now my husband and I have just enrolled him in a special education preschool where he will receive additional therapy. It wasn't an easy decision for us because we are a homeschooling family. I still hope to teach him at home when he is older and (hopefully) caught up.

Does anyone else here have experience with autistic children? I know you do Jewelsong, and I would love to talk to you. My son's current pediatrician doesn't think anything is wrong with him and the therapists don't know what is wrong with him either. If he does have autism, it is a mild form because he interacts with people and isn't overwelmed by his surroundings too often. He does hate it when a lot of people start laughing together though, it makes him scream for some reason. He is just now starting to learn to talk at four. He says several single words and a couple of short sentences, but he uses some words that sound nothing like they are suppose to. Such as gawkie for water, wa-kiki for hamburger, and whale-ma for fish. Is this a symptom of autism?

He is also very attached to his stuffed dolphins and gets so excited with he sees pictures of dolphins in books or on TV. He grunts and squeals and especially loves their fins. My mother was looking up autism on the internet and read that extreme attachtment to certain objects can be a symptom. He also likes to line things up in a row in his play room, things like play food, little people, tent poles, and soap. He is also only half way potty trained. He only pees in the toliet.

He does love his family and likes to hug and kiss. He seperates from me easily, but doesn't like to play with other children. He likes to play alone and his favorite thing to "play" is walking around his playroom or backyard with his hands held out in front of him making noises. He has a big sister whom he likes to run with and chase and he likes his baby brother (he likes to put his stuffed Spongebob in the baby furniture that the baby isn't using).

Well what are your thoughts? If you don't want to discuss my son's particular case (and I won't be offended if you don't) we can discuss autism in general. I read that it is increasing greatly in the US every year. I wonder why. Do other countries have a rising autism rate? It affects boys more often than girls, but when girls get it the case is usually the worst kind. Again I wonder why. I also read that diet can be helpful in managing autism (diet is probably a factor in the rising rates here in the US). Also vaccines have been cited as contributers/causes of autism. There is a lot here to discuss!

~Sidonzo

Here is a link:
http://users.wpi.edu/~trek/aspergers.html

It is a site for Aspergers' syndrome, which I believe is a kind of autism.

Your son does not sound like a "true autistic", but I know little about it except from interacting with my friend's autistic grandson. She has another grandson who seems to be "Aspbergers", a high-functioning form. I hope you get it sorted.

I am looking forward to the discussion that is sure to follow here.

I hope you can get some satisfactory answers soon, Sidonzo.

My sister's youngest child has some developmental difficulties, it sounds more like the Asperger's Syndrome based on the link vison provided, but I don't think he's ever gotten an actual diagnosis. In the few months after he was born, the best they could do was 'failure to thrive.' He would not eat. They did all sorts of things, among them an operation to prevent him from vomiting; eventually they inserted a feeding tube into his stomach, which was in for several years.

He is very small for his age (now 10 years), and has all sorts of behavioral peculiarities (lots of routine things that he takes extreme deight in, and maintains an aversion to most foods), but is obviously exceedingly bright as well. He also gets extremely excited when lots of people are talking/laughing together.

I, too, wonder about the rise in autism and the causes. (Not meaning to trivialize, but I have just started renting the TV series 'The Shield', and the son of the main character has just been diagnosed with autism. I don't know yet if they continue that thread into the second season.)

Are you familiar with the well-known autistic author who pioneered advancements in the treatment of stock animals? I have heard her a couple of times on the radio. I know she has written at least one book, talking about what the world looks like through autistic eyes, so to speak. I don't have the information at my fingertips, but I'll see if I can dig it up somewhere.

Sidonzo it must be nerve-racking for you to watch your son go through this.

Here are a few things I'm in the position to know from work exposure. The diagnosis of autism is indeed on the rise, but that does not necessarily mean that the disease itself is becoming more widespread than it was in the past. One part of is that in general people are becoming more attuned to the various developmental disorders and more apt to diagnoze them in young children instead of just writing them off as difficult behavior. The other reason is that when a developmental disorder is diagnosed, many parents feel more comfortable with their child being called autistic than with other labels.

My understanding (which could be wrong) is that the primary symptom is that autistic children are unable to relate to others. The other part is that people with autism can see the elements of a pattern but not the pattern itself - the trees but not the forest. That's the part that allows some of them to do exceptionally well in math.

In personal life, I have a friend whose son has similar symptoms to what you describe - delayed speech and motor skills development. In her case it turned out that the boy had very poor hearing because his ears were constantly stuffed up from ear infections. He also has some issues with his muscle tone, but besides that there shouldn't be any developmental or emotional issues. Now that his ears were drained, he is quickly catching up with his speech.

I know an Asperger's child; very intelligent but he has a lot of trouble relating to his external world. If he gets focused on something, it is near impossible to get his attention. I helped him with school work once; took a lot of patience but he pulled through. I there's also a boy in one of my Taekwondo classes whom I strongly suspect is Aspergers (he's there in the first place to try and improve his concentration). He is very social and talks a lot, but doesn't like to put in too much effort. Still, he's improving, if only slowly.

Asperger's isn't too severe; with a proper diagnosis and help there's no real reason Asperger's sufferers shouldn't be able to get through life without any more trouble than, say, a blind person or a paraplegic (I think). They need a little extra help, that's all. Of course, if the boy was extremely autistic it would be a different matter, but he doesn;t seem to have the symptoms.

Dr. Temple Grandin is the autistic woman who works in the animal welfare area. She spoke at a meeting we were at at UBC a few years ago. Most interesting woman. Her autobiography is really fascinating. Well worth a read.

My brother has a son with Asperger's. He's very bright, and musically quite talented. He gets along well with the family but never wants to look someone in the eye. There have been some social problems and problems getting him to focus on what school or parents want him to focus on. But overall, he's a great kid and with some help will do well.

I have a story like Frelga's. My parents were convinced at one point that my older brother was mentally retarded. "Look!" they would say, pointing out to sea. "See the boat?" And he would just look confused and answer "Huh? Boat?" When it came time to send him to kindergarten, it was discovered that he was extremely near-sighted. Boat? What boat?

Good luck, Sidonzo. It's not easy raising a child who falls outside the norm (mine is bipolar, so I know). I'm sure you have the love to help him become who he was born to be.

A kid who doesn't talk until 4 is not your average kid. If my doc just said "Don't worry, he's fine", I'd go to another doctor. Is there a psychiatrist in your town that specializes in children, who could give him an evaluation? Also, as Frelga mentioned, deafness from ear infections or other causes can delay speech. It can also make reading more difficult, due to the problems with sounding letters out and hearing the subtle differences among phonemes. You might want to see if he can pick up sign language. Some kids can pick that up before they can talk, because it uses a part of the brain that is ready, sooner.

If you want to know more about the Autism-Aspergers spectrum, I can highly recommend the book "The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime" which is fiction, but written as if the author is a boy with Aspergers. It is so well written, I could easily identify with the protagonist's point of view, bizarre as it sometimes was.

From what I understand, Asperberger's kids are CHARACTERIZED by high levels of intelligence.

What a hell it must be to live there, let alone to observe.

Sidonzo...

My nephew is suspected to have Asperger... he is currently in therapy, being tested for his schooling options next year, and works with a logopedist. His four and a half.

Sidonzo, as my sister is alone with her kids, I did a lot of reading about the subject recently, I don't have the time right now, but I will try to come back and tell you what I have read and where she finds help.

our youngest boy is Autistic, diagnosed as moderate on what they call they ASD spectrum.

There are three areas in which characterise autism, firstly. communication difficulties, secondly personal/emotional interaction/ thirdly an inability to engage at anything other than a very literal level. (I am sure somebody has said this better.


It's difficult to give practical advice, because autistic children are very different. We are lucky with little Edmund because his disability is confined to Autism, and most welcoming of all, most of his difficulties are confined to his communication problems, he is very loving, and is well-capable of playing on his own - although he does exhibit obsessional behaviour from time to time.

The trick is to give him time, his only tends to get upset if he doesn't understand what is going on - if you can explain what is happening, then he is usually happy and co-operative.

The other thing which we have to remember is that he is only six, and will behave like a six year old.

In terms of the rest of his learning he is making good progress, he is talking more, although he does use the PECS system at school for communication, he knows his numbers and can count in tens, and hundreds, he knows the main shapes, circles, squares, rectangles, and he knows colours, he has a pheneomenal memory, if he watches a film three or four times, he can remember the whole script parrot fashion.

To the causes, my own take is that there are a number of different "types" of autism, certainly there is the well known Asbergers syndrome, which may be characterised as Autistic lite, there is the so-called Savants, and there is also an Autism which is associated by bowel problems (this is the group that Wakefield has controversially associated with MMR vacines) - these maybe the children who can be helped with specialised diets.

There is a big move by the medical/phamarcutical interest to position autism as a genetic condition, although they have not been able to pin down the gene, there are also some people who have argued that autism is in fact a genetic inheritance which was a result of cross-breading between modern man and the Neanderthals, my own take is that something enviromental has gone on, and I think this could have something to do with innoculation, specifically the use of mercury derived preservatives that have made up vacines - autistic children often exhibit a high degree of mercury in there hair.

sorry for rambling on at length, is you want to take the discussion down a particular path please let me know and I will give you my two-pennorth

We are reasonably confident his language

Judging from the symptoms he just may have a disorder in perception - my wife reported me about some cases which were supposed to be autistic but really just clogged ears (clogged in a way it didn't come out during the usual disagnosis). The poor kids didn't develop like they should because they didn't understand good enough. This "private language" of his is a hint to it.
These are just my ideas - I'm not an expert.

My younger daughter is autistic, diagnosed as moderate like eborr's son. Her main problems are in communication, although with almost ten years of intense therapy she has advanced a lot.

Sidonzo, to me, your son also sounds a lot like an Asperger person.

I'll post more at a better time, and try to dig up some good links and book suggestions.

Some more information about my nephew Marc (I wanted to ask my sister first if it’s okay that I talk about her child)

Marc was born in novembre 2000, and my sister’s marriage was already falling apart at this point – in fact it was already falling apart before she even got pregnant with this second child. The first two years, the attention of the family was more focused on the very difficult divorce and family situation, and if it was obvious that he was a bit retarded in his developpement, everybody blamed it on the really painful divorce. Now, that is obvious that the child has something deeper, this attitude continues unfortunately from the grand-parents of their father’s side for whom Marc is basically retarded, because his mother does not take care of him…. It makes all dialogue very difficult, and as the father has gone back to living in Germany, and if the children are with him, they spend a lot of time with the grand-parents, it has been difficult too to keep a consequent treatment and therapy. Moreover for some time after the divorce, his father refused to take the two children and only wanted to take the elder son, who has no particular problem. All this, just to set the background which helps to understand why we, the family from her side, really do our best to support my sister, and thus I felt very concerned by my nephew’s condition.

Until the age of three and a little beyond, Marc did not speak at all – not even “Mama” or something like it. He has then started therapy and now speaks rather fluently, although his articulation is bad and his vocabulary limited. As he grows up in a bilingual environnement, although he seems to understand French perfectly, he never says a word. His motricity is underdeveloped for his age – even if he moves quickly, his movements are often badly coordinated, and he falls. He has trouble in seeing limits – does not stop at a fence, and runs into furniture, sometimes even walls. It’s not an eye problem, apparently. Some of his behaviour can be qualified as obsessive – he can spend hours walking up and down our garden, for instance, or walking around a table. If asked why, he answers that he “must” do it. He likes to cuddle with people he knows well, and the last time we met, he ran towards my husband and flung himself in his arms – it was very touching. But he refuses to talk or to look at strangers, and can get aggressive when someone touches him without asking. But with those whom he trusts, he is very affectionate.

What you said about Dolphins, Sidonzo, are trains for Marc. He loves them and can spend days with toy trains or looking at real trains. If he has access of obsessive walking, it helps to tell him that he is a train and that the rails go in another sense.

Marc goes to kindergarten since a year now, every morning, and has recently started to interact sometimes with the other children, as well as with his cousins, which is a huge progress. He does not yet play with them, but tolerates their presence, talks to them, and will stay in the same room without the presence of an adult. He is half-way potty-trained, but always wants a diaper, even if he won’t use it. This is one of the hugest conflicts with the German grand-parents who refuse it – they say they are ashamed with a four year old in diapers.

Marc’s therapists has mentioned several times Asperger to my sister, telling she might also find information about it under the name of “High function autism”. As we try to support and help her – she works a lot and is an impatient nature, and sometimes cracking under the situation, I read recently a few book, unfortunately all in German.

Right now, the most urgent question is how he will be schooled next year. Currently, it seems that he will go to normal, public school half-time and stay in therapy every afternoon.

My sister is also pondering about the relationship with his father – which has greatly improved – and with the German grand-parents, because each visit is a source of conflicts and every time Marc falls back on his progress.

Once more I have to go, I just wanted to talk about the role defined for us, aunt and uncle with the therapists…. Another post.

I had hesitated myself to open a thread on the subject, I’m glad it exits, I love my little nephew.

Just a fly-by post again...

Sidonzo (and anybody else who is interested), here's the International Links page of the Finnish Association for Autism and Asperger's Syndrome; hope you find some helpful links there. And, since you live in Illinois, the Illinois Center of Autism may be of your interest (the link on the page I gave is outdated, as are some others as well).

Later...

Reading about Nin's nephew is disheartening. Is there no one in the family who could explain to his grandparents that the child just needs a little different kind of care than most kids? It sounds to me as though he will do fine, but it's really unfortunate that visits to the grandparents set him back. Maybe he shouldn't visit them until he's older?

None of my business, of course. I just can't understand how grandparents could be so judgemental of the little guy.

on schooling our son is in a special school which means that he is in "class" with 4 others, in this class they are looked after by one teacher and a teaching assistant, the children also have regular access to a speech therapist and if appropriate a physio.

Most of the teachers in the school have an autism specialisation as it's now recognised that strategies for autistic children can differ significantly from those with other special needs (AAHD, Behavioural/emotional problems).

These kind of high teacher/pupil ratio's are completely unknown in mainstream schooling, and I firmly believe it is essential that they have this level of attention.

The grandparents need to be educated, what they have is probably is very clever little nephew who simply doesn't relate to the world in the way that we do, he has some kind of haze which muddles his perception, and in some ways sharpens his perception. He will have talents that can amaze, our little boy has an amazing knowledge of where he is in space, we can take hime somewhere once and he will remeber the route there.

There are one or two tricks that we have found that work, the first is when communicating to make eye contact and hold it, we usually preced e the conversation by saying his name and establsihing eye contact, we then explain what we want, and if it's something that he doesn't like then we offer something he likes afterwards,

We might say "first reading then Batman/Hellboy" or whatever his favourite movie is, and similarly with going to the toilet, trips to the shops,

"First shops then cafe" we then have co-operation.

Pretty much like any other child/adolescent eh

Thanks for all of the responses! Does anyone else find it surprising that such a high number of people on this board are related to a child with autism or Asperger's? I mean there is like what, 170 people on this board? Someone who is good at math should do a percentage after reading through this thread. I wonder if this board is an abnormality, or if we are representative of the population at whole?

I didn't listen to my son's (who is Jonathan by the way, I feel weird calling him "my son" since he has a name!) doctor about his developement. I took him to be evaluated by speech and developmental therapists myself. They said he definitely needs help, but they can't diagnose his problems until they spend more time with him. We are also going to get his ears checked out before school starts next year.

Some of these symptoms that you guys are naming ring a bell. Jonathan also was unable to keep anything down as a baby. At first I just thought that he was spitting up a lot, but after he started eating solid food and spitting all of that up too, I knew there was something wrong (he wasn't growing as fast as he should also). He had tests done and was diagnosed with acid-reflux disease and was put on Prilosec for a year. Thankfully either he grew out of it or the medicine healed him because he doesn't throw up anymore.

Jonathan also has a problem with running into things when he is walking. He doesn't do it so much at home because he knows where everything is, but if we go someplace different he runs into carts, walls, tables, ect... I don't know if this is a problem or if it is something all little boys do because they aren't paying attention to where they are going.

to Nin about her nephew. His story really breaks my heart. He sounds a lot like Jonathan (who was born in Oct 2000 by the way), I bet he is just such a loving little boy. It really upsets me when people automatically assume that children like Marc or Jonathan are stupid or mentally retarded. I do have Jonathan wear underpants because he wants to wear them, but he does have to wear a Pull-up at night and I just resign myself to the fact that I may have to change his pants some days.

Thank you all for the great reading material too and please continue with your discussion and stories.

~Sidonzo

I've heard that Di-methyl-glycine (DMG) can help autistic people. My husband was taking it last year for athletic purposes (it increases the oxygen carrying capacity of your blood) and the person that recommended it said that for a while it was hard to get when they discovered it could help autistic people, because all the families of autistic people were buying it up and there was a shortage for other purposes!

I also read an article last year about geek syndrome, that autism is off the scale in silicon valley, and they think it's because being a "geek" is now socially profitable, and they are reproducing more than ever in history, and that when geeks marry geeks, perhaps it reinforces the geekieness to a harmful degree resulting in aspergers and autism. The article is more articulate than that. This is just my overly simplified interpretation.

edit: I was also told that DMG is absorbed best as a sublingual tablet, because it doesn't pass through the gut very well.

I know a family in which autism and Asperger's seem to be hereditary. I grew up with these people. The dad was almost certainly Asperberer's, a high functioning absolute weirdo, a man I loved dearly, but who drove nearly everyone mad in his long, long life. He married an eccentric woman who shared his personality traits (they hated each other for 52 years until he died, but they WOULD NOT part) had two sons, both of whom are certainly Aspergers, and two daughters who hover on the edge of oddity. The daughters also married eccentric men and their children push the geek envelope very hard. Now one of those daughters who is my friend has an autistic grandson and another who is Asperger's.

Her sister has also only two grandchildren, one of whom is extremely, extremely gifted but is also developing an eccentric personality (at the age of 5!). He read all the Harry Potter books at the age of 4, and seems to have a photographic memory. He has a lot of ritual in his life, requiring, for instance, a divided plate so no food can touch any other food. He is a sweet little boy, but very strange. He has his own names for people, and there is no use trying to get him to use your proper name.

The original old man, who has been dead for years now, had two brothers in England and evidently they both died in institutions and some family research shows now that they probably were autistic. My friend got very discouraged and gave up the family tree about then, afraid of what she might find.

I don't quite know what to make of it. These old friends of mine are all nice people, I've known them all my life. But they are "different". One of the men, for instance, seems to totally lack any understanding of "social cues". He's 64 years old now, and talking to him is so weird: he never seems to know when a conversation is over, for instance. I meet him now and again and we chat and then it's time to move on, but if I didn't say something like, "Well, I MUST be going!", he'd stand there and ramble at me for the next five years. He doesn't get offended or anything, but you have to be really clear with him that the conversation is over. His brother is much the same, but I don't see him as often.

Yet, except for the little boy who read Harry Potter at the age of 4, not one of them seems especially bright. They all drifted around in university for years, never taking any degrees, but able to be perennial students because a wealthy relative left them tons of money for their education.