board77

TORN wrote:

Oh, yes, I apologize if I caused any offense

Oh, you did not! I was reacting to the suggestion that we deliberately start a discussion founded on such speculations. If that were done, I'm afraid I would feel ethically obliged to relentlessly spam it with entreaties to desist.

Cerin become a spammer? I would pay to see that!

Quote:

Not meaning any disrespect or offense to anyone, but I think the idea of speculating on what JRRT would have thought of the movies is absurd and offensive in itself.

I know one of the things I hate more than anything in the world, is other people speaking for me, putting words in my mouth, as they say.

Another factor in the absurdity of that notion (speculating as to what JRRT would have thought about the movies) is that that speculation will invariably reflect our own thoughts about the movies. We might just as well say, 'this is what I think of the movies', as say, 'this is what I think JRRT might have thought of the movies'. So let's just stick to saying what we think about them, shall we? Pretty please!

I don't agree that it's offensive in itself, because I don't think anyone has claimed to know FOR CERTAIN what Tolkien would have thought. Noone is putting words in his mouth, just offering speculation based on what they know of his personality. I also don't agree that the speculation always reflects someone's own thoughts on the movies. Infact, more often than not, those who admire the films say they expect Tolkien would not be happy with a lot of the material (like me, for example!).

Well, since it was my suggestion Cerin was responding to...

Honestly, I think it would be a very interesting discussion if people cited to Tolkien's writings and life to substantiate their speculation.

Putting words in JRRT's mouth would be, "Tolkien would categorically have despised [or embraced] PJ's movies."

But, to say, "I think Tolkien would have objected to (or approved of) the treatment of XYZ scenes based on what he wrote in Letters [No]" could be a worthwhile discussion, if people were interested, and would be far from "absurd and offensive". Also, I don't see how that would be the same thing as saying what we as individuals thought of the movies.

- TP

I would be interested in reading that thread. Tolkien was reasonably happy with several pretty bad adaptations of his work, like Pauline Baynes artwork and Donald Swann's music. I suspect he would have loved parts and hated others, like many of his fans.


Alatar

Prim - not only is she an evil overlord, but she takes about five posts explaining she's moving a thread. Spammer extraordinaire.

Dear Prim, you don't need my permission (as you've gathered). Just move the thread as an admin sees fit and post a note in the thread saying what you've done.

I see you're hesitant on wielding Teh Powah, but I sense that will change over time...to the ruin of us all.

BTW, TheCluelessMind -- whose bare back are we -- and whose bosom is Gandalf -- seeing?

Thanks, Lidless. I do hesitate to be "high-handed," but of course a moved thread is easily un-moved if someone objects. I ran mad moving threads yesterday, in fact.

I blame Voronwe.

TORN wrote:

BTW, TheCluelessMind -- whose bare back are we -- and whose bosom is Gandalf -- seeing?

Sorry, but it was just too good an opportunity to pass up.

I've gone Blind

<clamps both hands over mouth>

cute tattoo!

Oddly, I'd say it's almost an improvement on the real thing.

TORN wrote:

cute tattoo!

Kinda looks like my avatar, actually.

Ah, the warped images of fandom! How we love them!

Moving swiftly on ...

Alatar wrote:

I would be interested in reading that thread. Tolkien was reasonably happy with several pretty bad adaptations of his work, like Pauline Baynes artwork and Donald Swann's music. I suspect he would have loved parts and hated others, like many of his fans.

Which Baynes illustrations did you have in mind, Alatar? JRRT liked her work, certainly, including her map of Middle-earth. Here are some Tolkien covers by Pauline Baynes:

http://www.eq5.net/tolkien/tbkcovers.html

She also illustrated ‘Bilbo’s Last Song’, a copy of which I have at home:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... 0?v=glance

The charming illustrations inevitably remind me of her Narnian style – her Elrond is straight out of Narnia!

Here is another artist whose depictions of Middle-earth met with the Professor’s approval. Ladies and gentleman, I give you … Cor Blok!!!!

http://www.nightrunner.com/gallery/html ... _22_0.html

Tolkien’s own illustrations for The Hobbit and LOTR are, of course, pure Art Deco.

Donald Swann’s setting of ‘The Road Goes Ever On. Yes, I’ve heard it. Oh dear. The melody sounds like something out of Noel Coward rather than LOTR!. But the Professor really liked it, bless his dear soul.

Di, on the link you provided, the top two are fine but I hate the others! They're nearly as bad as Roger Garlands covers.

Shudder

Alatar

Alatar wrote:

Di, on the link you provided, the top two are fine but I hate the others! They're nearly as bad as Roger Garlands covers.

Shudder

Alatar

Oh, no way are they as bad as Garland!

I rather like them. More Narnia but Middle-earth but they're sweet.

And the three paperback covers by Baynes, for each volume of LOTR, make me feel very nostalgic. That was my very first copy of LOTR, the three volumes as paperbacks in a boxed set, given to me by a friend at university. The same bloke had dumped us both, and that was her consolation present to me. God bless you, Christina.

Oh, for the love of ...



Another tedious DP! Go me!

tolkienpurist wrote:

But, to say, "I think Tolkien would have objected to (or approved of) the treatment of XYZ scenes based on what he wrote in Letters [No]" could be a worthwhile discussion, if people were interested, and would be far from "absurd and offensive".

Alatar wrote:

I suspect he would have loved parts and hated others, like many of his fans.

So you two, you really wouldn't mind if there were some other website that you had no way to access, but you knew people were talking about you there, and making statements like, "I think tolkienpurist(Alatar) would approved of such and such about such and such based on what he wrote in this thread on TORC(b77)," and they were totally wrong in their assumptions and speculations, yet the conversations continued on as though these absurd statements had some basis in truth and actually reflected something of your own thought processes?

Well, at least please label the thread plainly, so I don't mistakenly wander in and make a nuisance of myself.

Quote:

So you two, you really wouldn't mind if there were some other website that you had no way to access, but you knew people were talking about you there, and making statements like, "I think tolkienpurist(Alatar) would approved of such and such about such and such based on what he wrote in this thread on TORC(b77)," and they were totally wrong in their assumptions and speculations, yet the conversations continued on as though these absurd statements had some basis in truth and actually reflected something of your own thought processes?

I would have no problem with that at all, especially if I was dead. I don't understand why you find simple speculation in such bad taste.