board77

Sassafras wrote:

(And they should have inserted the Finding of the Ring in there as intended, right after Gollum says .... "my name ... my name ...." rather than using it as a sort of prologue to ROTK.

Now there's an idea! Almost anything would have been better than putting it where they did, IMO.

Cerin wrote:

Sassafras wrote:

(And they should have inserted the Finding of the Ring in there as intended, right after Gollum says .... "my name ... my name ...." rather than using it as a sort of prologue to ROTK.

Now there's an idea! Almost anything would have been better than putting it where they did, IMO.

Why is that?

Cerin wrote:

Sassafras wrote:

(And they should have inserted the Finding of the Ring in there as intended, right after Gollum says .... "my name ... my name ...." rather than using it as a sort of prologue to ROTK.

Now there's an idea! Almost anything would have been better than putting it where they did, IMO.

I actually thought that it made sense, in a weird sort of way. Through most of TTT, it looked like Frodo's kindness was getting through to Smeagol. In movie-world, we have no knowledge of the cradle-robbing Gollum, but we do have Gandalf's and Frodo's words about pity. Non-book readers would tend to see the TTT Gollum as an almost sympathetic character, a victim twisted by the Ring, and expect him to be redeemed.

TTT ends with Gollum plotting evil things against the hobbits. Then, ROTK begins with us learning that Gollum is not nice at all, precious, that he took the Ring by murdering his good friend. This sets us up for the all-evil Gollum that appears throughout the last movie.

Mind you, I don't like the all-evil Gollum, and I am still mad that PJ stole his near-redemption on the stairs and allowed him to split Frodo and Sam.

Kezmoid wrote:

Cerin wrote:

Sassafras wrote:

(And they should have inserted the Finding of the Ring in there as intended, right after Gollum says .... "my name ... my name ...." rather than using it as a sort of prologue to ROTK.

Now there's an idea! Almost anything would have been better than putting it where they did, IMO.

Why is that?

Kezmoid! How wonderful to see you here.

I don't know, it just struck me as such a weird way to begin a film of such scope and energy. Perhaps part of it is that I didn't care for the scene at all; I mean, if there had been such a person as hadn't seen the other two films, I can imagine them walking out then and there if they thought that was a sample of the kind of acting/filmmaking they were in for. I think it would have worked much better after some kind of set-up relating to the events that were currently taking place.

I hate to resort to cliches, but truly if there were ever a filmic sore thumb sticking out of a movie, this scene is it, IMO.




Frelga, excellent points about the scene as it relates to the apparent change in Gollum from second film to third; I think it would have worked as well for that purpose coming just a bit into the film as beginning it.

What Tolkien does in the book is set up an almost all-evil Gollum from the get-go. Then, gradually, we see some possible tiny glimmers of redemption and hope in Gollum's character - which go completely over Samwise's head but which Frodo affirms.

The great thing is, Tolkien - in his capacity as omniescent detached narrator - allows us to feel empathy for Sam's suspicion and fear towards Gollum - Sam is motivated by his great love for Frodo, and of course we can appreciate that Gollum is a very dangerous and unpredictable character. Sam's feelings are entirely understandable.

And yet a wise reader can also see that Frodo has the far greater and deeper wisdom here. The principle of Mercy - a higher principle in the universe than brute force - is at work, and Frodo affirms this.

I wish to God that PJ had shown this crucial aspect of Frodo's character, I really do.

Quote from Frelga

Quote:

... and I am still mad that PJ stole his near-redemption on the stairs and allowed him to split Frodo and Sam.

Of all PJ's changes, I am most saddened by this one.

It's very well acted, but ... it breaks my heart, and not for the right reasons.