board77

oh noooo, oh no no no no no

Drattet! I knew someone would take me comment the wrong way. Now I can go slap myself.

Certainly not you Alantar. Certainly nobody here!

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Resident witchâ„¢

I don't have a problem with the forum titles myself, but the fact that Alatar does tells me that we should at least consider changing them.

Well, we have already decided changing movies, I think.

But Alatar, I think you are taking this all the wrong way, and I don't understand why!

Why do you feel excluded when someone says something you don't understand? I just can't believe this is really the case.

Like Ath said, encountering something you don't know should make you curious rather than defensive.
I would have sworn that everybody here felt that way, and I simply can't believe this is not so.

And yes, this board has a certain characteristic, and the way I see it, that characteristic is that the members are endlessly curious to learn new things and are not deterred by things that appear "difficult". They don't avoid exercising their minds, because it's not an unpleasant work for them. If someone offers them some new insight, they soak it up eagerly. They concentrate for long enough to read and write long and excellent posts. They use full, complex sentences.

I've never seen you any different than fitting in that characteristic perfectly, Alatar, and I simply can't believe that reading something you didn't know before makes you feel bad.

And that's why I'm saying that, yes, there is a certain clientele we are catering for, and these are the people to whom we should appear attractive.

And there are more reasons not to be ashamed of being a bit demanding than a perceived character of the board:

Some people here left a certain other messageboard when they were told that the board was perfectly willing to lower the level of discussion so that younger members could more easily follow.

Tolkien said what children read should be a challenge to their minds, rather than cuddling them with what they know anyway.

I really don't mean to sound elitist or so, but I think that it's a good thing if it becomes clear that we expect members to be thrilled rather than scared with learning new things!

Alatar,

You suggested "Ainulindale" which I think is a great name, but it would be lost on a good percentage of those familiar with LOTR. It's beyond the depth of many (most?) Tolkien lovers.

I'm not saying this to discourage the use of it, but to point out it is not easy to find an interesting name that is recognized by or appeals to all. I'm not sure those are valid criteria.

Prim,

Sorry, Guys. I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad and obviously I am and always have been quite willing to work with the forums whatever title they have. I simply think that they could be titled in a more welcoming fashion. I'm not about to leave the board or feel unwelcome because of them but I do think that they reflect an attitude that I would prefer not to be part of. I have never felt intimidated into not posting here despite the amount of serious scholars and intellectuals on the board. I am not a heavyweight intellectual, but that does not stop me from participating in discussion with such heavyweights. I have enough confidence in myself to discuss even when my inability to formulate my thoughts into the arguments I want to express frustrates me or my language skills let me down. Even so, it's hard not to feel inadequate when confronted with the calibre of posters here. I'm not suggesting we dumb down the conversation, but I am recommending that we try to be inclusive rather than exclusive.

This is not a "dealbreaker". I'm not passionate about this. As you so rightly say, anyone who bothers to read the fora will quickly figure out what they are and just run with it, as I did. However, I still think that the current titles do not reflect the culture of respect that I have found here. I count myself fortunate to be able to walk in the shadow of giants and I would like others to do the same. While these titles may not discourage posters from participating, they do not encourage and that to me does a disservice to the calibre of posters here.

Alatar

What Alatar says about the quality of the other posters here goes for me too although he said it with more skill than I could manage.
I'm all for quirkiness though anything chosen that is not immediately understandable runs the risk of looking obscure for it's own sake. I can see both sides of the argument here. It's the old story, the smaller the point, the bigger the quibbles. We are all agreed about world peace, right?
It looks like a good thread to involve the n00bies in.

Alatar wrote:

I have never felt intimidated into not posting here despite the amount of serious scholars and intellectuals on the board. I am not a heavyweight intellectual, but that does not stop me from participating in discussion with such heavyweights. [snip]
Even so, it's hard not to feel inadequate when confronted with the calibre of posters here.
[snip]
I count myself fortunate to be able to walk in the shadow of giants and I would like others to do the same.

But, Alatar, if you are not intimidated, that's the most important thing! And I have no doubt that others will feel just as fortunate to meet all the brilliant people here!
(Though as to "giants" - in such contexts my folks usually say: "they also only cook with water" - sounds silly in translation, but you get the idea. )

And one more thing: no matter what we call the forums, the calibre of the posters here won't change!
That's why I was saying if the forum titles reflect that, that's not a bad thing.

(And we're not going to ban Jny so that n00bs won't feel inadequate, you know! )

Well, I guess it's a personal thing how one responds to these situations. I don't mean to sound arrogant, but I'm just not easily intimidated. Before I came to TORC, the majority of contacts I had, offered no challenge to me, on the contrary, I often felt I had to slow down, so as not to lose them. When I got to TORC, almost everybody was at least on equal levels, so I immediately saw I had to do my best in order to even keep up. And there were even some I could hardly hope to reach no matter how hard I tried. And I thought that was just GREAT! Best feeling in a long time!

Tosh, good point about this being a good thing to involve the next new members in!

Oh, and I don't mind a new name for Music, too, if someone comes up with something where we all instantly say "wow, that's it!"
It's not like "La Camerata" is insurpassable as a name. I just don't want us to rename things at all costs when we can't come up with something that's better than what we had.

I think the only "insurpassable" names, IMO, are ToE and The Turf - anyone who suggests changing The Turf should be condemned to come to Oxford to meet there!

But I digress.

What would people say to simply having the English translations in parentheses next to the Latin titles? This is something I would have appreciated when I first saw the Latin (though as I believe Alatar said, it is easy enough to figure out what the forums are about).

I think the Latin is a bit intimidating, in the sense that it makes persons who don't know Latin immediately aware that they are in the company of persons more educated than themselves. Of course there is nothing wrong with that awareness, but is perhaps not necessarily the first thing we want to make new visitors conscious of. I think the parenthetical translations would serve to immediately make people more comfortable, by allowing them to understand what is being said.

Can we at least edit the subtitles a bit?

Suggestion for movies:
Movies, television, and DVDs from current to classic

Suggestion for books:
Everything about books—discussion, reviews, recommendations

Suggestion for music:
Music from classical to contemporary

Not great, but a bit more informative. Hack away.

Cerin wrote:

I think the Latin is a bit intimidating, in the sense that it makes persons who don't know Latin immediately aware that they are in the company of persons more educated than themselves

I would prefer to think of it as "differently educated" rather than "more educated".

And I'm pretty sure that there are quite a few people "out there" who could easily translate those titles, and still be quite hopeless in engaging in an articulate, meaningful discussion with members who have no knowledge of Latin whatsoever. The ability to clearly present ideas and opinions, the ability to connect with others, does not rest upon "classical training" (and Alatar, you have these abilities "in spades", my friend! )

Prim, I like those suggestions for subtitles!

Yes, "differently educated." Latin is irrelevant in many countries—not even taught. There is nothing "less educated" about a person who doesn't know Latin.

Edit: I would not ordinarily be so presumptuous, but time is running short (three hours and a bit to opening). I'm going to edit my suggested subtitles into the forum listings, on the understanding that the discussion here might lead to changes. That is perfectly fine with me—I don't think what I've written is the Ultimate Answer. It's just more descriptive for newcomers.

I haven't studied Latin in over three decades, but I know how to google (that's how I found the Latin for "it's not the heat, it's the humidity" -- which seemed appropriately profound on a humid, 90-degree day). The biggest part of knowledge these days is know what you don't know and where to find it.

I won't be despondent if the names change. They did make me smile when I arrived here, though.

you're anything but presumptous Prim and I wholeheartedly agree to the subtitle edits

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Resident witchâ„¢

I think we should call it "m00bies".

I think the Hall of Fire is m00bies, Ang.

Just reading through this now.

I had no problem with the Latin titles. I had no idea what they meant, either and I didn't really give a flying fig. The words looked kinda kewl and now I know what they actually mean and that's kewl as well.

"La Camerata" I knew, being a musician. I like it for a music forum, because it evokes a small group of people, making music together. Plus it's ITALIAN, the language of lovers and opera.

My thought is to just LEAVE it ALONE. It works.

(Now...the HISTORY forum...THAT name should be changed. Boring....!)

Well, we tried on that, but the many Tolkien suggestions were all too "twee."

I think the forum titles should be in Afrikaans.


Well, seriously, I like the Latin, even though I never studied it. I say leave it.

Leave it as is. People can open the forums, see what it is all about, and learn a bit of Latin.

I'm thinking we ought to switch languages now and then. Next: Swahili?