board77

Possibly the greatest sci fi show ever, with a story that takes 5 seasons to tell.

We have it all on DVD, and are re-watching it now. It's just great!

We have it all, too, and my son has watched it several times over the years (counting from when he was watching the tapes I made).

My husband loves it as well and has seen all of it, except the last episode—because he says he doesn't think he can take it!

I was on the Science Fiction Roundtable at GEnie, an old bulletin board, back in the late '80s to early '90s, when B5's creator, J. Michael Straszynski, was also a regular poster there. (It's where I, er, obtained the Salmon of Correction. ) I always read his posts; they were interesting and funny and off-the-wall.

Then one day he posted joyfully that he had finally sealed the deal and could tell us what he'd been up to: his SF show about a space station was really going to happen, and we should watch for it in syndication because it was going to be unlike anything that had ever been tried before—it was going to be a five-year series with a complete novelistic story arc!

And I thought, hoo boy. Yarite. And didn't even check out the show, when it happened, for a year and a half, because this was just some guy on GEnie, right?

It was not the first time I have been both wrong and stupid, and far from the last time either, but I pull out the memory from time to time to remind myself of just how massively wrong I'm capable of being.

Edit: Here's the post, as archived in JMS-NEws—it's the very first post there, November 20, 1991. I actually hadn't gone and read it again until just now.

Wow, Prim, that's really cool that you heard about it from the start. I like that post you linked to. He certainly succeeded in "getting it right" !

He really did. Once I did hook into the show, I started reading rec-arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated (I think that's it) on Usenet, where JMS also posted—it was moderated, which is unusual for Usenet, so people couldn't post story ideas, which he couldn't read for legal reasons. It still exists and he posts there from time to time, but during the show it was a very active forum dissecting each new episode, with the added benefit of JMS popping in to gloat and laugh at us and drop dark hints. We also all lived through the yearly cancellation scare together, when JMS would not be told whether the show was picked up until after it had wrapped for the current year (a horrible situation).

That's why he had to film the final episode of the series, "Sleeping in Light," at the end of Season 4—because it really appeared that it would have to be shown then. That's why some threads that should have stretched into Season 5 were wrapped in 4, which makes Season 5 awkward in spots.

But, those problems aside, he really did do it. He really did what he said he was going to do, in spite of huge obstacles—tell a five-year story that was planned from the start. It's amazing.

Ah, that explains it then! Season five did seem a bit disconnected from the rest of the story.

Prim, that's really fascinating. Unfortunately, I didn't have a TV by then so I've never seen even a smidgen of one episode.

That's too bad—it's pretty fascinating. My husband, who doesn't indulge in hyperbole, says B5 is, overall, the best television show he's ever seen.

If we lived closer I'd lend you the DVDs. Of course, 110 episodes, plus six movies. . . .

The overall story arc and individual character arcs are interesting. A character who seems like comic relief in the first season ends up walking a very dark path; one who seems like an obvious villain becomes a Christ figure; the heroes make disastrous mistakes; and the philosophies of two ancient civilizations battle for influence over humans and the other modern races of beings. Love and friendship and faith matter deeply.

There is a strong vein of Tolkien's influence in B5—though JMS has always denied any explicit connection. It's there in minor details such as the Rangers roaming in secret fighting an ancient evil most people knew nothing about, and a planet named Z'Hadum where a fateful fall takes place. But it's also there in the conflict between hope and despair (despair is a sin in B5, too), in great deeds done by the weak, and in the fact that Providence sometimes turns the acts of evil people toward the good. (Though JMS doesn't believe in Providence. )

And there are kewl space battles.

If I thought I could dedicate the time to watch the whole series, I would definitely get the dvd's myself. But unless I can committ to watching the whole thing, there is no point in starting.

Yes, it's a lot to take on!

If you ever find a source for borrowing them, I could recommend a couple of episodes that would give you the flavor, anyway.

Primula_Baggins wrote:

There is a strong vein of Tolkien's influence in B5—though JMS has always denied any explicit connection. It's there in minor details such as the Rangers roaming in secret fighting an ancient evil most people knew nothing about, and a planet named Z'Hadum where a fateful fall takes place.

There's also a few direct and disguised quotes. In the Tecnomage episode Elric says "Do not meddle in the affairs of Wizards for they are subtle and quick to anger". Also, one of the Ranger mottos is "We stand on the Bridge, and none shall pass".

Incidentally Prim, have you read the Tecnomage trilogy by Jeanne Cavelos? It's absolutely fabulous. Easily the best tie-in I've ever read. Also, the storyline was passed by JMS so it's considered Canon. The Bester Trilogy and the Centauri Trilogy are both very good also.

Alatar

I think I have both kicking around—I bought them and my sons read them and I never got them back.

I'll track them down, because I remember both of them saying the same thing. Thanks!

Primula_Baggins wrote:

Yes, it's a lot to take on!

If you ever find a source for borrowing them, I could recommend a couple of episodes that would give you the flavor, anyway.

Recommend away. Then I'll always know where to find the recommendations.

I have to consult with my son, who's seen the series at least two times through since the last time I did. It will take some thought because the most marvelous episodes are marvelous partly because they pay off on a great deal that's gone before.

My son is asleep at the moment.

Maybe others who read this have ideas. MariaHobbit, Alatar, anyone—what episodes would you recommend to give a n00b the flavor of the show and a sense of its quality, without being hopelessly confusing?

Easy. "Babylon Squared". It's Season one, so there's very few spoilers and it doesn't get it's payoff till Season 3 so you're getting the same effect that the rest of us had when we first watched it. There's enough of everything in that episode. It's part standalone, part story-arc. A real hook into the series.

From a personal point of view one of the standalone episodes that really knocked me for six was "Passing Through Gethsemane". Excellent concept, fantastic setup and knockout delivery. And it's pretty much unconnected to the major story arc.

Alatar

Alatar, Passing Through Gethsemane was one of the ones I was thinking about mentioning, too—a powerful story, and fine performances, particularly from Brad Dourif.

NO! Don't start in the middle! My mom recommended this series to us ages ago, and sent us a tape with an episode from the middle --the one where Delenn gets tortured! -- and we hated it and didn't get involved while it was being broadcast.

Finally, after reading the thread on TORC about B77, we decided to get netflix and start renting the series. We started from the beginning and were instantly hooked. After some annoying delays in shipment of disks, we decided to just buy the first season. We ended up buying each season as it came out, and were most frustrated at the delay between release of seasons!

It is best seen from the beginning! Online rental places are pretty reasonable nowadays, so it's easy to rent the first DVD and see if you like it or not.

Well, that's hard to manage unless you're committed, and also the first season is not the strongest. I think an episode like Passing Through Gethsemane, where the main plot doesn't depend on the five-year story arc, would at least give Voronwë an idea of the quality of the show.

Starting out on "Comes the Inquisitor" would definitely not work, though—you have to already love the characters to care about what they go through there.

What other episodes can stand alone?

The only thing I liked about "Passing Through Gethsemane" was the fact that Brad Dourif was in it. It was a rather irrelevant episode.... which is sort of what you are saying, I guess.

Renting online isn't hard, and if you don't like the series, you can always stop choosing it- and/or cancel your subscription. We are working our way through the Sharpe series that way, as the full set of movies is too expensive. We probably wont stay subscribed for long after we get through that series.