board77

I hate this to the millionth degree.
I am so tired of not being able to do or say anything around here without causing a debate.
Think I will go and coerce a couple of Rangers to create a new forum so we can have WWIII.

what are you talking about old man?

This whole thing saddens and frustrates the hell out of me. I don't understand where the sense of humor of this place went.

LIGHTEN UP PEOPLE!!

It was a joke. Why must everything be in strict adherence to the rules? So long as no one is harmed, sometimes it's a good thing to have rules bent. I don't see anyone harmed by Lidless' thread even though people are acting like he burned a flag.

My enjoyment factor for this place has dipped. If people can't take a joke why even bother?

What are you saying I can't burn my countries flag

Well, technically you could, it's protected under the First Amendment.

Lidless wrote:

The whole purpose of the thread was to get people to chill. To step back and see that this is just a posting area on the internet and that is all. Estel's father, having been a pilot in Vietnam, never gets flustered. "Hey, think of it this way - today, I didn't get shot at." I've learned from him.

But Lidless, you stated that you and TP *knew* that the thread would probably piss people off, and that the board was eggshell sensitive these days. I appreciate your desire to lighten things up, but next time when people are already very emotional you may want to consider an action that adds some gaiety without being deliberately controversial. (If you expected this reaction to happen, then the purpose wasn't really "to get people to chill," it was to prove that people NEEDED to chill, which is not the same thing at all).

My guess is that if the two of you had started the thread at another time, there would probably be far less brouhaha.

I think everyone should go out and rent a madcap comedy ("Bringing up Baby" with Hepburn and Cary Grant is superb!), have a few laughs, and then return to this discussion.


Edited to say: The critical observation above does not change my opinion, that (with, err... the possible except of the thread in question) Lidless can be one the funniest people currently posting on B77.

Though not quite as funny as Whistler.

...

It's my view that if people perceive Steve as 'someone with power' that's their problem, not his. He's said over and over that he doesn't want it.


I don't think anybody is abusing anything. If there weren't a disagreement going on over some rule at any point in time, this would hardly be b77.

I don't perceive Steve as a person of power. I don't think that's it. It's that he's well liked and a friend to many.

The only thing he's ever done was secure the domain to b77.com or whatever it is. He didn't have a single hand in founding this board, hasn't ever been a Ranger/admin, and didn't have any part in the Charter. He's fought so hard to get rid of the perception that he has any power.

As for the thread, I saw no contempt or any malice in starting it. I think some people are assuming the worst of him.

S_O wrote:

This whole thing saddens and frustrates the hell out of me. I don't understand where the sense of humor of this place went.

LIGHTEN UP PEOPLE!!

It was a joke. Why must everything be in strict adherence to the rules? So long as no one is harmed, sometimes it's a good thing to have rules bent. I don't see anyone harmed by Lidless' thread even though people are acting like he burned a flag.

My enjoyment factor for this place has dipped. If people can't take a joke why even bother?

S_O, when do you say does one reach the point where people are harmed?
Just because you think it's fine, doesn't mean it really is fine.

Several people have felt offended by this thread. They said so, which is their right. For this they got insulted and told to lighten up. All their efforts to bring their point across were treated as of no consequence and indeed something ridiculous to do in the first place.

I think this procedure is fundamentally wrong.

The main problem of this board, I think, is that a number of people don't see the difference between freedom and having no limits to do whatever you like.

On this board, there ARE limits for doing whatever you like. You are asked to post respectfully of other people and their opinions.
It seems to me that this is too much restriction of freedom for some people.

Holbytla wrote:

Now enough of the bullshit. Stop bitching about a stupid thread.

Now you're imposing your frame of mind on others. If people are bothered by something, they have the right to talk about it, even if it doesn't bother you.

Quote:

Well, I knew Cerin wouldn't back down. She has no idea how to.

Golly gee, Steve. What about all those smiles and hugs by PM? Oh, those were given because you thought I had backed down.

Why should I back down about something that seems important and wrong to me? Would you? Did you back down about ToE? As to not PMing or deleting my posts, that thread is a farce. It does not deserve the respect of a Bike Racks thread because it isn't, it is a joke and should be treated as the joke it is.

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I will let the small band of intransigent posters have their way for the sake of the board. They are incapable of reciprocating that act.

And that's why this board gets fucked up so frequently.

That's a load of bullshit. You started this fuck up with your thread, don't blame it on others.

Quote:

Why must the same group always put up a fight? This is not just "your" board and I'm gonna be bold enough to say that a certain group of you are certainly fucking it up, if not ruining it for some of the others.

So you're saying that certain people should not speak up about what bothers them, if it isn't something that bothers you?

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Can't the thread just be moved? Say, to Turf?

Wasn't the problem that it was in the BikeRacks?

Yes, that was the problem.

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I think the issue here (well one of the issues, anyway) is that of perception. Steve, like it or not, you are perceived as One of the Important People on B77. One of the Founding Members. The Big Kahuna. Therefore, what you do is held up to a higher standard than others and your posts and "jokes" and occasional missteps are scrutinized to a higher degree.

Well then no wonder some of you are really upset by what Steve has done, but that really is your problem. I may be out of line but I'm pretty sure Steve doesn't view himself as having more pull than anyone else on this board. If you hold him to a higher standard that is something you are going to have to deal with yourself, but you shouldn't push that on him as if that's what he wants or expects. In fact I would go so far as to say it's wrong that you hold him to a highter standard.

And as for the rest of your post I wasn't around for any of that therefore to a n00b like me all of that means nothing, which is why someone like me is appauled at how some of you are behaving about a joke. I know what's funny to one is not funny to all, but don't drudge up the past as if it's a vaild excuse to explain the current situation.

This isn't about abuse of power, if anything it's about breaking the "rules" and I'm not saying I think rules were broken but a lot of harsh accusations and terminology are flying around.

It's quite interesting to see so much strife over one little thread that has 8 posts in it.

I think I'm going to forget about this and join in some pleasant threads. Anyone is free to join me.

joins Eru

Jewelsong,

I appreciate the honesty. Just as an aside, as I understand it, the agreement with Estel and th was that they would not post in the same thread where they were on opposite sides. It made no difference to whom the individual post was made. But that's a side issue and not worth continuing here.

You know, I'm saddened with this Powah thing.

1 There were 20 people who joined on the first day, and I was one step above the bottom quartile.

2 Most of those have served as Administrators, Rangers or Mayor. I have not. Nor will I.

3 I own the rights to the dot com shell only because I was quickest with the check book. It is held on behalf of the posters, not me. The only power I claim is that whilst it is still in my name before being transferred to a trust or corporation, I reserve the right to be consulted on legal matters (underage posting etc).

4 It was because of this attitude that I had to withdraw from all Charter matters because I was perceived as being The One (despite my parody to the contrary). Ethel was getting all bent out of shape about it saying that anything I had to say carried more weight than anyone else's, that it was equivalent to Law - something I have complete antipathy with and I did not want that perception. As I posted last month, do you have any idea how difficult that was, not allowing oneself to be part of the process when it was of the utmost concern and touched my heart? To not be a part of the rearing of an infant I had a part in creating in my own small way? It was because I had the posters at heart that I had no choice but to withdraw to enhance the atmosphere of equal voices.

How many friggin' times do I have to say that I have no power? If I have power, I order you to believe that I have none.

I am a poster like all others, just with an outlandish non-PC sense of humor. That's all. That's all I ever was and ever will be, I hope. That is not power. It's not even influence.

Of course, it turns out that not all posters are equal after all. The ones that carry more weight are those that just have a loud voice, stamping their feet until all the others back down for harmony's sake.

They are the ones with power, as has been amply demonstated here.

th wrote:

The main problem of this board, I think, is that a number of people don't see the difference between freedom and having no limits to do whatever you like.

No. The problem with this board is that there are people who have learned that if they stamp their feet hard enough, they will get their way. They have no idea of what the word "compromise" means in a real social context.

Holby (and others), I appreciate the sentiments, but after all this commotion yet again on this board, I do not find the thread even remotely interesting or funny any more. It has become a dirge.

Please delete it.

I'll think of something else, and check with Cerin first where I should stick it, though I don't think she'd appreciate my first choice. I mean another message board with more fun, of course.

Quote:

So you're saying that certain people should not speak up about what bothers them, if it isn't something that bothers you?

There is such a thing as being oversensitive. What are we supposed to do as a board when eveything certain posters say is going to bother you? Start a protest?

Edited: Because I may have gone too far...

TM wrote:

but a lot of harsh accusations and terminology are flying around.

You mean like your post above?
That's about the most disrespectful thing I've ever read here. And that's being up against some pretty stiff competition.

Edit: thanks for editing

No problem I do realize when too far is too far and you'd never believe who the first person to ask me to edit it was though.......

You know the problem here? It's not the thread. Not at all.

It's the fact that so many of us, too many of us, are eager to take offense because of their personal feelings towards certain posters. I don't for one instant believe that Lidless and Estel are being this rude to Cerin just because she voiced her opinion, as she did so calmly, politely, and was well within her rights. No, there is obviously something more at work here. I may be wrong but to me it looks like there is a dislike between them. And that's why Estel gets mad that people are rushing Steve, when no one is doing so.

Just an example but this is not the first time it happened, and it happened with other people as well.

Seriously, if I had made the complaint, would they have been so badly insulted? I doubt it.

It's what we've recently all disapproved of in the arguments between CG and SF- the arguing of the person, not their opinion. X doesn't like Y therefore Y will always be perceived as rude, attacking, baiting, stiff-necked and wrong. Oh, don't tell me that's not true, I can see it plain as daylight. I can tell the difference between when someone is ready to accept input from another person, and when they are not.

I would suggest that we all think about how prejudiced we are towards the opinions of posters we dislike.

I don't know whether the thread in question was a good idea or not.

I do know that too many people I like and respect are behaving like arses.

I do know that too many people are giving up on this place. Why? Why must everything work perfectly, why must there be no disagreement for people to be happy?

The fact is WE decide what the rules are, we TOGETHER. I'm a Ranger now and if you ask me, TORC mods had it easy because they just went ahead and made the decisions.

Oh, and one last thing...this is not TORC 2. This is a wonderful place where wonderful people can have wonderful conversations IF THEY JUST FUCKING LISTEN TO EACH OTHER ONCE IN A WHILE AND TRUST EACH OTHER! Is everyone really coming to b77 with the 'people are bothersome' attitude? Am I the only one who likes this place and thinks it's great???

WTF.

Quote:

There is such a thing as being oversensitive. What are we supposed to do as a board when eveything certain posters say is going to bother you? Start a protest?

This isn't about everything certain posters say. I haven't complained about anything anyone has said. I voiced my opinion that the thread was in the wrong place. Are you suggesting that those who were bothered by this should not have said anything?

And I'll suggest again, if the thread is allowed to stand, I think someone should change the wording of the description of the forum on the Board Index

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I'll think of something else, and check with Cerin first

Lidless, why are you focusing on me? I am not the only one who objected to the placement of the thread.