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I had no idea the Eastern Orthodox fasted so much. Roman Catholics are encouraged to fast on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday, but that's it. Abstaining (no meat) on Fridays in Lent is also encouraged. I know fasting is supposed to be good for the soul, but it makes me so crabby, I'm a terror to be around. In no way does it do me any good spiritually. As for abstaining from meat, I'm mostly vegetarian anyway, so days without meat are not exceptional.

Thanks, Monika. I've been trying to ignore Din's barbs.

laureanna wrote:

I had no idea the Eastern Orthodox fasted so much.

That's in theory.
To be honest, I don't know anyone who keeps all the fasting periods. Most people usually fast only for Lent.

I am also a vegetarian so missing the taste of meat is no big deal here. However, I find it difficult to cut down on dairies and IMPOSSIBLE to cut down on chocolates.
But the reason I don't fast is that I don't feel very involved in the life of the Church, although I still think of myself as a Christian Orthodox.

laureanna wrote:

I know fasting is supposed to be good for the soul, but it makes me so crabby, I'm a terror to be around.

Maybe that's one of the reasons prayer is considered essential for the fasting period. Again, I hardly pretend to be an expert on this since I don't follow the practice. But it seems to be that when the body lacks something it needs it is only natural that it will get frustrated. Then prayer comes in to remind the person that he/she is doing this as an offering and not as a sacrifice. By treating fasting as a sacrifice, I feel that there is the danger of the self feeling too good about it's achievement, ("see what I have achieved to give up!") thus leading to selfishness and pride. But treating it as an offering and a process of purification (combined with prayer) maybe helps one stay away from this problem.

Just some thoughts.

Truehobbit and Laureanna, I am sorry that you appear have taken offence at something I had posted.

Not sure why, am I not allowed to share my views here. Don't want to appear barbed, but that was not fair TH. I have to put up with the crap day in day out, my fault for working where I do. I do not, however expect to be flamed like that. It was unfair and out of order. If you had a problem, send me a PM, I would have amended when I understood what you were offended by.

I was going to reply in full and explain my views, but there appears no point.


But thank you for your tolerance.

Hobby, Din, I don't want to try and work it out for you two because it's touchy (and also I don't need to prod my nose everywhere)- all I want to say is I know neither of you meant to hurt anyone. Keep that in mind...okay? You're both good people.

Or in other words, if you're going to argue about religion, at least REALLY argue about religion.

(Seriously, I don't want either of you upset.)

Okay, now you've got the agnostic-but-by-tradition-Catholic Spaniard looking in.

I know that religion is a touchy issue, but I (let me repeat: agnostic, non-religious me) didn't see anything wrong with Din's post. Then I saw TH's comment and went: "huh?" I came back and re-read Din's post, and realised what was the bit that could have caused offence.

There was a similar hoo-hah on TORC last Lent, with people arguing whether openly religious sigpics were offensive. I tried to stay away from the discussion, because I know first-hand how problematic religious issues can get. I admire people who have faith, and who are so proud of their religion that they want to tell everyone about it... until they tell me, because my beliefs are usually the opposite. So more or less like I try to avoid right-wing political rallies or articles in the paper. They won't convince me otherwise, so I try to stay away.

Din, however, works in a religious organisation, so I can understand his frustration. I'm very interested in religion from a purely sociological point of view, and I know that Din is an historian, so I can understand why he wanted the job (it must pay well too, I assume, and be convenient commuting-wise). But it must be difficult.

However, in Spanish we have a saying: "hablando se entiende la gente", people understand each other through talking. I'd much rather have people bring up their issues here than to harbour resentment... Just try and keep a positive mindst when reading what someone else posts, and don't immediately assume that it's a personal insult.

I suck at doing that naturally (hot-tempered Spaniard blah blah... ), but I try hard.

Remember:

What you believe is stupid and your politics are wrong
I hate the way you dress and I hate your favorite song
Your friends are slacking losers and your breath and feet both stink
But I'm looking in a mirror, so who cares what I think?

:mrgreen:

LOL! Ax...

Ber is right. You guys, if someone brings up a problem, then they're not doing it to hurt anyone (well I certainly hope not. ) but to talk about something that would otherwise be a hidden hurt.

I must admit I did a double turn at Din's post. BUT because I know him a bit, and furthermore, I know how annoying people can get about religion, I decided to shrug it off, neither encourage the joke nor condemn it. Hobby it turns out is more sensitive, and was upset enough to need to say something. This isn't bad- it's GOOD... it means talking.

Talking is important. (about tone, too. You guys can work it out.)

Try and keep your sense of humour around people. Everyone makes what others might consider a bad joke every once in a while - that doesn't make it a barb or an attack or someone being mean. Try not to be offended.

That, and even if it was a (bad, off-colour, non-p.c.) joke, there is a nice way of pointing it out and saying you have a problem with it.


Din.... grooooooooooooaaaan - that was almost as bad as a Lidless Pun

Fasting might be good for your soul. I can't say.

But fasting is BAD for your health. It is not "cleansing" or "purifying", it is harmful. Your body "cleanses" itself every day, actually. You do not need to "purify" your body, it has a lovely excretory system that works like a charm.

truehobbit wrote:

.....it's not necessary to swallow anything.

Yes, that's the whole point of Lent.

th,

Chill. A joke is a joke. That's all. For me, many jokes, satires and witticisms have more truth than the most eloquent of discourses. They can strip away the pretence, highlights the ludicrous, undresses the absurd and can be stunning in its clarity. Swift was The Master in my eyes.

Nobody has a monopoly on the truth, and I've never understood people unwilling to have a potshot taken at themselves.

Look, I do jokes against the French, the Germans, the English, the Americans, religions as a whole, blondes, women, men, Estel and myself. Yet nobody takes offence (I think). Why should Din be treated any differently?

If life is taken too seriously, you're obviously missing the point. You've been invited to a party by your parents. Go enjoy.

To be blunt, IMHO religion is a social and mental trick of the mind passed down through the generations (see The Retirement Plan) - a controller and comforter.

That so many people feel the need for such 'mental tricks' such as Lent to give up something, rather than having the strength of will to do it under our own steam, I find disappointing.

But then again, that's my viewpoint and I won't defend that I'm right. I have no idea if I am. But then again, neither does anybody else.

So take everything with a pinch of salt - unless of course your fasting for Lent.

May I?

I think Hobby can safely chill, as Din meant no harm.
I think Din can safely chill, as Hobby meant no harm.

Din could have anticipated that a bolder joke about religion wouldn't go down well in a thread full of...religious people...discussing a tradition that means a lot to them. But his only fault, really, was a misplaced comment. No biggie.

Truehobbit could have told Din she didn't appreciate the joke more nicely. But her only fault, really, was an angry reaction to something that she felt strongly about. No biggie.

I think it's safe to shake hands.

And did you guys realise we've discussed this more than Hobby and Din actually have? Maybe they'll come back here and laugh at us worrypots.


:mrgreen:

Dindraug wrote:

I am not saying Nero was right, but sometimes I do wonder if he was wrong

Trajan said that in the first five years of his reign, Nero did more good than all Caesars combined together.

As for the prosecution of Christians, there were worse eggs than Lucius Domitius Ahenobarbus. Domitian and Diocletian, e.g., and I bet Kushana can come up with a handful of even worse.


I, confessing atheist for more two thirds of my life, have visited the "Carnival Mass" in my home town, something which I hoped would cheer me up and paint my pic of the old church anew. But to no avail.

Teremia, I sincerely hope your life will brighten up soon. I hope anyone's life will.

Mummpizz, thank you. And I second you on the good wishes expanded to anyone/everyone.

Oh dear, this was certainly not the intent of my thread. I wanted to discuss Lent with those who want to discuss it, and let you know I'm leaving for a while. So would some kind person lock this thread, and start a new one on religion in general? Thanks.

Aw come on. Going OT is nothing good, bad or indifferent, it just happens. So if all kind persons from now on may stick to lent and leave this thread lockless? And if you leave, laureanna, may all good wishes mentioned above / possibly mentionable be with you until you return and further on.

They're serving pancakes in teh M00bie Forum on Torc. I stopped by to wish everyone a light fast and swiped a pancake on the way out (don't tell anyone)

So, the same to everyone here - I wish a light fast to those who keep a fast during Lent, and I promise not to eat in front of you if you promise not to shove twinkies in my face during Passover, lol!

Jn

Have a good Lent, laureanna and everyone who is observing it! May it be beneficial for you.

truehobbit wrote:

but I've also learned from Eru, who never hesitates to speak up when someone disses the US, and usually gets good feedback on it, that it's not necessary to swallow anything.

Is that a good or bad thing? I figured you would be one of the people I piss of the most by speaking up about that sort of thing...so your post has surprised me a bit.

OK, carry on without me. This thread is now hostess-less and I am not responsible for where it goes.

Gung Hey Fat Choy!

Bye laureanna.

Enjoy your Lent period.
I'll see you when you come back.