board77

Well, there's a big difference between something that happened 60 years ago and something that happened over 200 years ago, considering some of the people who lived through WWII are still around.

But, hey, if the French want to remind us how they helped us during the Revolutionary War, have at! We'd be foolish to forget our past.


Lali

Estel's point is a good point: if everyone voted and voted their conscience, the world would be a very different place.

But we have to live in the world we have, sadly enough.

I always have a terrible time deciding who to vote for. In Canada, as in the UK and a few other parliamentary democracies, we don't vote directly for our Prime Minister. The person whose party gets a majority of seats is PM. So, if I want Mr. X to be PM, I have to help get Mr. X's candidate in our riding elected. And what if, as is so often the case, that candidate is a dork?

So I try to vote my conscience and let the chips fall where they may. Voting is simpler in provincial or municipal elections, where you might actually know the candidates. Those are the levels of government that have the most day to day effect on our lives, anyway.

I have this sorta vague theory that a lot of what is wrong with the US (and many other countries) is just that you have a lot of people. No system was ever meant to work for 300,000,000 people. We should break up all this big countries into littler groups and have no more than, say, 10,000,000 people in each one. All over the world.

Oh, sure.

Can I be in your country, vison?


Lali

LalaithUrwen wrote:

Can I be in your country, vison?


Lali

I'm ready to seize control. I've been ready for years.

How could I screw up worse than the guys that have been running things?

Give me a chance, I say.

Lalaith can be my Prime Minister any day.

I'd vote for you, even though I know we differ on some specifics. However, I know your heart and have come to admire you greatly.

But no thanks on the PM thing. Remember? I hate politics!

Surely there's something else I can do? Maybe I could be your official media/graphic arts person? Official clarinet player? Pennywhistle?

Oh, I know. Chairperson of Homeschooling! As long as I don't have to do anything political.


Lali

Dave_LF wrote:

TheMary wrote:

Hey United Kingdom, remember World War II? Just sayin' .

I notice the French don't often say, "Hey US! Remember the Revolutionary War?". Are they too big for that, or don't they remember either?

That's because the French can't be bothered with the US If they were to bring up the Revolutionary War it wouldn't bother me at all. So when I start bashing France feel free to bring it up.

Quote:

Hell, there are some of you in the US from abroad that live here and still flap their gums up on their soap boxes while they enjoy what the US has to offer them.

Who would that be?

Actually having lived in 2 different countries, I can say this - the US is a great country for the people and the opportunities it offers. But it is not more free, or more noble, or more moral than other civilised nations. It is just more powerful, and putting that power in the hands of a corrupt government is sometimes not very good for the world.

The only part of US culture that really grates me is an air of arrogance and superiority - a belief that the US is the model country and what every other nation should strive to be like. (disclaimer - I'm not accusing all Americans of that, or even most - but it is there. There is one radio host who ends every hour with the words "..in this, the greatest nation on gods green earth", and I think he speaks for quite a few).

Iavas_Saar wrote:

Quote:

Hell, there are some of you in the US from abroad that live here and still flap their gums up on their soap boxes while they enjoy what the US has to offer them.

Who would that be?

Actually having lived in 2 different countries, I can say this - the US is a great country for the people and the opportunities it offers. But it is not more free, or more noble, or more moral than other civilised nations. It is just more powerful, and putting that power in the hands of a corrupt government is sometimes not very good for the world.

The only part of US culture that really grates me is an air of arrogance and superiority - a belief that the US is the model country and what every other nation should strive to be like. (disclaimer - I'm not accusing all Americans of that, or even most - but it is there. There is one radio host who ends every hour with the words "..in this, the greatest nation on gods green earth", and I think he speaks for quite a few).

Can I just say, having recently spent nearly a month travelling over the US recently, that Iavas completely sums up my views and experience of America. America is a great country, but not as great, or unique, or as free as it thinks it is, and it suffers from the sort of hubris that has marked every powerful country that has ever risen and fallen. In it's views on itself it is no more or less different or exceptional than any other empire (whether or not you agree that the US is an empire, a subject for another thread). That similarity is both an excuse and a shame, as the potential of America remains vast because its heart is in the right place even if its arrogance and ignorance about the rest of the world stops it from being the unstoppable force for good that it could be.

TheMary wrote:

Hey United Kingdom, remember World War II? Just sayin' .

That would be the unavoidable war that you were unforgivably late too?

Britain owes you nothing on that front.

*sigh*

The world is full of generalizations and opinions based on little facts or half truths.

I spent two weeks in England, and most of that time I was with 100 or so of the most biased, snobbish, racist, hating people I have ever met.
There was no country or people they didn't constantly bash.

How foolish would it be for me to base my opinion of a country on that?

Would someone please explain to me why that whenever there is any kind of military action taken by this country, England, Canada, Australia and many other representative or democratic countries are right there with us?

Is it any surprise that governments that are ruled by the people tend to stick together against dictators and tyrants?

Personally I think we stick our noses in far too many of the world's issues and think we would be better of letting other countries deal with their own problems. Of course then we would be bashed for not rescuing people that are in dire straights.

There is a reason why this country is one of the most powerful countries on the planet. There is a reason why so many immigrants flock here.
The system of government is far from perfect, and some of the people in it are far from perfect, but it works and works well.

I wonder if what ails this country as far as our outlook, views of ourselves and the rest of the world doesn't also plague every other country, or are we unique in that? I don't suppose the same is true in Canada, England, Australia etc. etc. etc.

In closing, I'll revive that terrible old joke about having cookbooks dropped on England instead of bombs.

And if you have complaints about this country, go dig up King George and complain to him. He was the tyrant that started this whole mess in the first place.

Poor old King George. As if it was his fault!

However, that's for another thread.

The one "anti-American" remark I will make is, that, yes, there is a general perception that Americans are somehow "freer" than other people. They ain't. But it is part of the mythos of America, and it suits Americans to believe that. Who does it hurt?

Whereas, the Canadian perception that we are "just a little bit nicer" than the Americans is absolutely true.

I have nothing against Canadians, though the flocks of tourists we get from New Brunswick in their Speedos tend to give me the willies.
Eh.

Quote:

I spent two weeks in England, and most of that time I was with 100 or so of the most biased, snobbish, racist, hating people I have ever met.

What walk of life were these 100 people from?

Quote:

How foolish would it be for me to base my opinion of a country on that?

Who here is doing that?

All I can say is thank G I married an American with common sense.

America - the only country who can vote for a retarded man who is so stupid they had to name him after his father to give him a fighting chance at life,

Quote:

Britain owes you nothing on that front.

Yes, we just paid off the debt a year or so back we owed to the US for the aid we got in the war. It didn't come free. We took out a mortgage.

I stand by my original statement and respect the United States but it is a common attitude that it bailed us out in the Second World War. That is true but a couple of years ago I started a discussion about the military consequences of a UK negotiated settlement after the Fall of France. If in June 1940 we had recognised our weakness and become demilitarised like Vichy France as I think the US ambassador in London at the time expected and hoped for, then a year or two down the line we would have been invaded and our fleet and colonies seized. The US, Canada, New Zealand and Australia would be beleagured lone democracies surrounded by foes whose powerful navies controlled the world's trade routes and oil. The Caribbean would be a U boat haven and meanwhile drone bomber aircraft, jets and rocket development would continue.
There was a real risk of a change of government in mid-June 1940 to people who thought a settlement with Hitler was possible. I think the US has more to thank both Churchill and the British for their combined defiance of aggressive despotism than it realises.

I'm sorry Holby that you met a lot of prats when you were here. We are not short of them that's true.

The attitude that "we're the best country" is not exclusive to the US, by all means. I've encountered it everywhere I've been, among the ignorant who don't look beyond their front doors. It makes sense, after all, to think that you live in the best wold possible if you don't know any different. And if all the media deals with is local stuff, and you don't travel abroad, it's difficult to expand your horizons.

The Americans I know are some of the most intelligent, warm, and interesting people I've met. I haven't been to the US so I can't really talk about the country as a whole. But I know that what irks me about American attitudes ("we're the land of the free" etc) is EXACTLY what irks me about SOME British when they think they're different from the rest of Europe, which for them is just a holiday place; or SOME Spaniards when they're still baffled that I'm living in the UK because "everybody knows that Spain is the best place to live in". To think that their countries are unique or special and better. If I've learned something in my 35 years is that there is no perfect place and wherever you feel at home, that's home, but it doesn't make your home objectively better than any place else.

Except Ireland of course.















I'm kidding alright!!!

Anybody bothered to ask themselves why the US is the most powerful country?

I cannot believe, like Demo, I agree completely with Iavas - in the Symposium of all places.

As to why...it's due to great natural resources, cheap labour (especially pre Civil War), and the ability / knowledge to use them efficiently.

WW2 was the turning point, it's when America becomes a superpower. By the end of the conflict, it's clear that America had the strongest military force in the world, it has nuclear weapons technology, which no other country had at the time, and its economy was booming.

Washington channelled some of that wealth (USD 13 billion - equivalent to USD 100 billion today) into the Marshall Plan to help rebuild Western Europe. There was certainly a desire to encourage the economy of Europe, but this was very much in the context of the Cold War, of a sense that communist and socialist parties in all of Europe were strong and had a certain amount of political prestige. The Marshall Plan was an early economic weapon.

Well Steve let me ask you this.
What if this country had a system of government akin to that of the USSR or some other form of tyranny or despotism?
Would the country be as successful? Doesn't the type of government come into play as far as the attraction of this country? Like it does in other countries with a democratic government? Resources notwithstanding, people have to believe in the country.

And of course we had a vested interest in keeping Europe away from communism or facism. To think anything else would be silly.
Again how does that make us unique? What was the last major conflict we were involved in that didn't also include the other "free" or democratic countries like England, Canada etc.?
Everyone want their ideals and interests protected.

However no matter what this country does, it is going to be criticized for it.
If we get involved in foreign affairs we are seen as forcing our beliefs on the rest of the world. If we don't get involved we are seen as uncaring or self serving. It's a no win situation.

Ber hit the nail on the head. This country is far from unique in its opinion of itself. You are going to have a far different perspective than the outside world and of the outside world. That's true anywhere.

We're somewhere between the great satan and the great angel.
Like pretty much the rest of the world.