board77

A lot of messageboard bandwidth has been taken up by the reactions of the readers to PJ's trilogy. I would like to turn that around and ask those who saw the movies first and then went on to the books what they thought. There are clear differences that the viewer would not have been expecting.

So, in the books:
What disappointed them?
What uplifted them?
What surprised them?
What did they think of the major character changes: Frodo, Aragorn and Denethor (and possibly Faramir)?
What episode not in the movie most added to their reading pleasure?

I'll post these questions on HoF and TORC too to see what responses they get.

I read the books after FOTR came out, which is why that movie was my favorite, and I loved TTT book assloads more than the film. By the time I got to ROTK, I was just racing to see what happened and not fully taking it all in. I ended up very confused, and have been working at reading them all again for the past six years.

Major disappointments included (note: got the two mediums mixed up again but don't feel like deleting it lol. And I don't really remember disliking anything in the books - FOTR seemed so boring the first time around but I loved the descriptions upon my second try of it) Shadowfax not being with Gandalf at the Grey Havens, Treebeard being portrayed as a senile old buffoon rather than a source of history that commands respect, Dernhelm not really being a character but a reference (I never realized it was Eowyn until she takes off her helmet, okay?), Shelob being purposely stabbed by Sam rather than it happening accidentally when she tried to squish him, and Saruman's death not being followed by his ashes looking west to the Undying Lands he'd never again see. Also, I know that Aragorn and Arwen didn't have a wedding in the films, just the coronation reunion, but I missed Galadriel's presence there because of the conversation it inspired between Gimli and Eomer. Sometimes movie Gimli is great, other times he annoys the shit out of me, but that conversation always made me wonder what we could have gotten from the character with a different actor or writer. He still would have had a sense of humor, but also appear more noble, with a good heart, and able to get along with non-Three Hunters members.

What surprised me was the Eowyn reveal and arrival of Aragorn (specifically the raising of the new Gondor flag on the ship), both on the Pelannor Fields. Only two times I have ever cheered out loud while reading a book. Usually I get all caught up in the excitement and skip ahead, even if only a line or two. But those times, I didn't dare, and really thought things were going to turn out horribly for the good guys, and honestly did NOT see the rescues coming. As the new saying goes: bricks were shat.

Loved film Frodo and Aragorn (their performances at least - at this point, it is probably too hard to seperate those characters as written from how they are performed), and while Denethor sucks, at least he has a much different vibe to him from the rest of the films and characters, which is how I felt towards him in the book.



It has been a long time, as I said, but those are probably the main complaints and observations, since they stick out at me every time I watch the films. Even if I forget why.




*E*

My memory is sadly getting foggy already. I read the three books at least three times completely through followed up by the Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales, and an attempt at starting the Book of Lost Tales part I (that last has been a bit of a chore). Annnd I did all that probably over the span of two years or such, those two years being 02-03, which is already a good 6 years-ish ago.

Like *E* I saw FotR first, then I devoured all of the books and went on to answer book questions in the Tolkien books forum as a n00b, happy when I knew something that others didn't and I could explain it.

Anywho, the questions...

Disappointed? I don't think anything really disappointed me. I found it a bit of a chore to get through the Old Forest. In Tom Bombadil's house was interesting enough but then it dragged on a little more to Bree. Some of the historical explanations in their complete entirety at the Council of Elrond could've been a little shorter for my tastes then. One of my friends who was a great fan of The Hobbit when we were younger and who I went along with to see FotR got halted at the Council the first time she had tried to read it. Eventually she completed it a couple of years later.

Uplifted? Frodo wasn't really such a wimp! He so got gipped. Not stabbing the foot of the wraith on Weathertop in the movie....just cowering behind the others. Looking back at Disappointments, I was backwards disappointed when I found that Pippin was gipped of a glory moment in solving the riddle of the Gates to Moria. Oh! And I like that Gandalf's wisdom did not indeed falter as it was Aragorn's, if I remember correctly, insisting on using the pass of Caradhras which proved impassable. Gandalf had Moria in mind all the time. Right? Or did I get that backwards? I did that sometimes.

Surprised? I was pleasantly suprised by the time frame between Bilbo's birthday and arriving at Bree, with so much missing and skewed in the movies. I enjoyed the Crickhollow bit, the slight drama of the Ringwraiths stalking Frodo's new home. I liked that Farmer Maggot played a more prominent part and Merry and Pippin we made much less ridiculous in the way they actually ended up joining quest. And I enjoyed Tom Bombadil and Goldberry, annoying and fascinating enigmas that they are.

Character changes? A bit harder to apply since I think the most drastic changes come from beginning to end and I did read TTT and ROTK before the movies came out so I knew what to expect, but as I said before, I was happy with Frodo's book portrayal. Aragorn, hmm...he was a bit more whiney in the books. All of his, 'no! I don't want to be king!' mindset. PJ seemed to have toned that down and made him less guarded over his identity. But that's thinking book to movie now.

What episode most added to my reading pleasure? I already sort of answered that, but to think of a couple more... Gimli's insistance on going to gaze upon, oh geeze....need to do some brain digging here. The Mirrormere. I enjoyed Haldir in his proper place (not being killed!) with his brothers and the Fellowship spending the night with them on their talan. Much more warm to them in the book.

Ah it feels good to talk LotR again. I was just drooling over some of the wonderful hardbound copies in Waterstones the other day. *sigh*

Ooooh, I'll respond tomorrow. I'm too tired tonight!


Lali

Amrunelen wrote:

Disappointed? I don't think anything really disappointed me. I found it a bit of a chore to get through the Old Forest.

Yes, it is! I found that on my first reading of the book. Not that the Hobbits' stay in Bombadil's house is without merit -- there is actually much I love in that chapter, not least Tom's latent power and hinted-at quasi-divinity, and Frodo's dream of Eressea -- but the first time I did think, erm, Professor, can we now get back to the Main Plot?!

Quote:

Uplifted? Frodo wasn't really such a wimp! He so got gipped.

'Rune, you are my new best friend.

Good to know others felt the same. (on both accounts)

Perhaps we'll have to share some Tolkien discussion if I make it down to London from Glasgow.

When I watched the movies, I didn't remember the books. I read the books about 20 years before the first movie was released.

So I was nearly somebody, who came from the movie to book.

When I read the books after watching ROTK, I was really amazed, that Frodo was a lot of years elder than in the movies. I was nearly dissapointed, that he was an old Hobbit. It was a bit boring to read so many chapters about the Shire.

It was nice to read, that Aragorn was so resolutely in the books. Not the whiny I-don't-want-this-power man in the movies.

But I was dissapointed, that Arwen was hardly in the books.

It was very nice to read so much about Éomer. His friendship with Aragorn was a good thing. I really hated the movie friendship Aragorn-Legolas. Gimli was more noble in the books, and Denethor too. In the movies the dwarf was a clown and Denethor was an idiot.
Faramir's behaviour in the TTT book was oddly. It wasn't understandable for me, that he could resist the Ring and that he trusted Frodo so fast. In ROTK book I liked Faramir very much because his romantic chapter with Éowyn.

I cannot post here unbiased. I read the books when I was maybe all of ten, of course did not understand them at all the first or even second time through, but then I became an addict, I was one of the first to get a cop-y of the Sil (a birthday present from my dad way back when - a first addition, which I should have cherished more if I had known that at the time) and so, the books for me are the cannon.

I think PJ got a lot RIGHT with the books in his movies, but at the same time, lots of the movies sort of left me a bit down, the focus on the wars and battle scenes, especially Helm's Deep, I thought sort of overplayed, and then, the changing of major players such as Saruman I found disappointing.

The younger Frodo I was okay with until ROTK, and then, he just became tiresome. How many angsty glances and "I am about to give up" but for the help of Sam can one take? Bleh. I mean, I like Elijah, but, I guess I wanted a bit more "timber" in Frodo.

Boromir movie version I really liked, there I think PJ pretty much nailed the guy. Faramir was a wimp a good part of the time, and I did not like the movie portayal of him or of Denethor. Aside from the overlong Battle of Helm's Deep, I DID like the portrayal of the Rohirrim, I think there again PJ got it spot on.

Merry and Pippin, well, mostly okay, Sam was brilliant, Aragorn, well, I have issues there as well, but, I do admit that the book Aragorn was rather two dimensional and a bit too good to be true. My last complaint was with the Elves, I think PJ made them mostly far too standoffish and then had them rally round to help at the most inappropriate times, why would Elves help the Rohirrim over helping Gondor? I know it was done for the interest of the movie audience, but still, it makes no sense in the larger picture.

Hmmm, this is way too big a question to answer simply and concisely.

Tolkien quite clearly blew it. I mean really, what’s all this crap about an old forest, and that Tom Bumbadil guy was obviously gay, don’t know what Goldilocks was waitin’ for hangin’ out in his gingerbread house. And Frodo? Please! Tokien never once even mentions his dreamy blue eyes. He’s just some old git in the “books”. And as for Aragorn, where is the guilt driven angst, the doubt, the self loathing? Somebody needs to explain the concept of character arc to this Tolkein idiot. And don’t even get me started on Arwen at the fords. Gorfin...del... Glorif...bel ... Glorybell ... who does he think he’s fooling with these obviously made up names? I mean, come on! No juicy fruit Denethor, no Denethor Flambe running off the edge of the mountain. Frodo doesn’t even send Sam home at Cirith Ungul!

What a waste. I’m going to flush mine down the toilet. Somebody should sue Tolkien.



That was fun

I would challenge you to a duel, but I know you are just kidding.

That's more like it.
Remember this is movie to book, not the other way round.

Though if you want to vent who am I to stop anyone

tinwë wrote:

Tolkien quite clearly blew it. I mean really, what’s all this crap about an old forest, and that Tom Bumbadil guy was obviously gay, don’t know what Goldilocks was waitin’ for hangin’ out in his gingerbread house. And Frodo? Please! Tokien never once even mentions his dreamy blue eyes. He’s just some old git in the “books”. And as for Aragorn, where is the guilt driven angst, the doubt, the self loathing? Somebody needs to explain the concept of character arc to this Tolkein idiot. And don’t even get me started on Arwen at the fords. Gorfin...del... Glorif...bel ... Glorybell ... who does he think he’s fooling with these obviously made up names? I mean, come on! No juicy fruit Denethor, no Denethor Flambe running off the edge of the mountain. Frodo doesn’t even send Sam home at Cirith Ungul!

What a waste. I’m going to flush mine down the toilet. Somebody should sue Tolkien.



That was fun

All joking aside:
It is'nt really easy, to like these archaic epic book heroes, when you have watched these modern broken heroes in the movies. Every hero is developing in the movie. Aragorn developes from ranger to king in the movie, in the book Aragorn is king the whole time (how boring!). Faramir has to learn, that it's better not to take the Ring. Very understandable! Great character developement!

*duels TheWatcher - breaks out super-mega-trebuchet, which were all over Minus Tirith in the movies, but nowhere to be found in the books.*



Celebne, it's all in good fun .

OK.

Quote:

All joking aside:
It is'nt really easy, to like these archaic epic book heroes, when you have watched these modern broken heroes in the movies. Every hero is developing in the movie. Aragorn developes from ranger to king in the movie, in the book Aragorn is king the whole time (how boring!). Faramir has to learn, that it's better not to take the Ring. Very understandable! Great character developement!

Thanks Celebne. It's that sort of insight which is interesting. We normally hear the reactions from the other direction.

'But they go with great speed for all that,' said Arargorn, 'and they do not tire. And later we may have to search for our path in hard bare lands.'

'Well, after them!' said Gimli. 'Dwarves too can go swiftly, and they do not tire sooner than Orcs. But it will be a long chase: they have a long start.'

'Yes,' said Aragorn, 'we shall need the endurance of Dwarves. But come! With hope or without hope we will follow the trail of our enemies. And woe to them, if we prove the swifter! We will make such a chase as to be accounted a marvel among the Three Kindreds: Elves, Dwarves and Men. Forth the Three Hunters!'

'Wait!' cried Legolas. 'Let's make up some more poems about Boromir first. I've just thought of a great limerick.'

Lidless wrote:

'Wait!' cried Legolas. 'Let's make up some more poems about Boromir first. I've just thought of a great limerick.'

I do understand what Tolkien was doing there, but ... yeah.

Ah, but Aragorn sang there too. I believe the exact sequence was "Legolas sang..." "Then Aragorn sang..." "Then Legolas sang...."

Steve, is that your own? It gives me ideas for drawings, yesssss, preciousssss.

-Pips-

Quote:

So, in the books:
What disappointed them?
What uplifted them?
What surprised them?
What did they think of the major character changes: Frodo, Aragorn and Denethor (and possibly Faramir)?
What episode not in the movie most added to their reading pleasure?

I saw FotR before reading the books. I read all of the books after seeing the movie, so I can only speak about FotR (and hopefully I won't overlap accidentally).


I'm not sure I remember what disappointed me. Maybe the fact that Arwen is hardly mentioned. Maybe that there were so few women in the story.

I was uplifted (and surprised) by how much more personality Legolas had. He was so lighthearted compared to the movie. And cool without being cheesy.

Aragorn was a little more mysterious in the books, iirc. And Frodo was just better all-around--wiser, nobler, etc.

I liked Fog on the Barrow-downs and the whole Old Forest/Tom Bombadil chapters. The Barrow-wights, in particular, were deliciously creepy.


Lali