board77

I agree with Holbytla.

But I might not shut up.

I would also like to say, that I don't like the revoting all the time. Something has been decided - like the nine days - let's live with it. If a subject has been voted, there should be a minimum time when this subject is not discussed any more - like the invites....

I second that, Nin. I just imagine a new discussion and voting with each arrival of a new member.

And I also agree with Holbytla to vote for members of committees who can take decisions. Maybe there should be a rota system.

Just a suggestion from one of the said newbies.

I think once a system of administration is set up, the polls will be fewer. But it is too early to expect stability, or to abdicate the individual responsibilities of members. This is the constitutional convention stage, not the continuing governance stage, and so it is going to be uneven, with fits and starts, until we get things hammered out. But we HAVE to make a lot of these decisions NOW in order to ensure that ones made later, with more members, are possible.

In other words, we have to put up with the current methodology until we create a long-term one.

The problem with making the decision about the open/invite board system is that it is inextricably linked to the kind of board we want. Which is to say, the more open the board, the more central authority will be needed to deal with it. The tighter we control invites, the freer the board can be structurally.

That's the fundamental tradeoff.

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In other words, we have to put up with the current methodology until we create a long-term one.

And now the 64 million dollar question.
Just how long is this going to take?
We are getting to the point where this is becoming inherently more difficult to achieve. In other words, the process needs to be sped up.

Oops, I forgot. I was going to shut up.

[shut up mode]

Axordil wrote:

In other words, we have to put up with the current methodology until we create a long-term one.

Amen! :mrgreen:
That's why I've said... get your lovely backsides into all the discussion threads in the business forum.

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Resident witch

[/shut up mode]

I am fully willing to give Alandriel temporary supreme power until we figure everything out.
She is the original person who set this board up, and she is more than level headed and qualified to rule things on a temp basis until the system of government is in place.

[shut up mode] [for the last time]

Holby--

I do think a deadline is in order. And we should probably put a damn poll up to determine what it will be...

First there would need to be a poll to determine the contents of the poll.

Nah, screw that meta stuff. I'm just gonna do it and get yelled at.

You got your wish Holby - you see me all in orange again but guess what - that's not going to make much of a difference. Sorry - but not much of higher powers here I'm afraid. Just a bunch of work-horses in orange overalls

I'm going to bore you all to death again... We can 'aim' for a date. And what Jny said (in the poll thread that was locked due to hiccup lol) needs to be heard for she has put a lot of energy into this all and probably has the best overall outlook right now

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Well, definitely not sooner than April 1. I don't believe it will be possible to work faster than that.

I've got to push forward myself, after urging everyone else to do so, but there's only so many hours in a day. April first is probably a reasonable deadline for 90% of the stuff.
Jn

but then - and yes I do know I sound like an old grammophone - I don't think it's possible to set a deadline per se. An aim yes (but it all depends how much effort people put into this and how much we argue ) We'll just have to play it a bit by the ear
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Resident witch

To be completely honest, I added the poll because quite a few people were requesting rather loudly for the boards to be opened immediately.

Everyone seems to have completely opposite opinions lately, and when I try to find a middle ground, or start a poll so there at least feels like a middle ground (or at least a place where people can express how they feel) no one is happy with the result.

That's why I took a break today.... until now at least

Here is how I feel personally: I don't think the boards should be opened... ever. If every new person were to invite 3-6 people in, we would never have to worry about the board dying. Maybe I'm a snob, maybe I'm overprotective - don't know. My personal feeling is that I want it always to be invite only - maybe publically viewable, but post-in-able only by people who have been voted in.


Here is what I am trying to do as an admin: If I hadn't started a poll - or a thread for that matter - someone else would've, and they might not have held back their own personal opinion in the first post. It very well might have been:

• We need the boards open now!!!!!11@ Vote YES in the poll!!!!!@@@@2

That's all well and good, but I wanted some sort of calm to remain in the midst of all this panic. Why are we discussing it yet again? Because there are quite a few people whose voices needed to be heard.
Do I agree with most of those voices? No. But my responsibility, as someone voted in, is to the posters and the board as a whole, NOT my own opinion.

So, so sorry for starting up this topic Yet Again, but sometimes we all have to deal with doing things and discussing things that we don't want to, that we thought were dead topics. That is the nature of democracy my friends - we either want it, with all it's hassles, or we don't. It's your choice.


Edit: Sorry for sounding so harsh, but here's the thing. You say you want people in charge. Well, I'm one of those people. I made a decision to restart this topic and this poll, because it seemed to me, in all my reading of the boards, to be necessary. I sound harsh, and I sound frustrated, because I am. This has been an incredibly frustrating past couple of days for ALL the admin, and yet people seem to want the clean up to be easy. Well, it's not. And I'm so tired of trying and working to find some sort of middle ground - someplace where everyone will be happy, and just having it work out that NO ONE is happy. I'm just really really really tired. I need a break, and I don't have the option of taking one.

It seems to be that there is already a pretty clear mandate to keep it closed, but shorten the invite process. Since that is what I voted, that obviously is the correct option.

Obviously, Voronwe! :mrgreen:


(psst, I think all you admins are doing a great job)

Ah, de ja vu. Your post sounds so much like many of mine Estel! All I can do is give you support and say I TOTALLY know how you're feeling! Just do what you can and if people complain about it, politely let them know that you're only doing what others wanted done.

On a lighter note, Rebecca! Your sig!!!

I think we should open up. Not in a day, not in a few weeks, but eventually....after all, even if trolls do join, exactly how much damage can they do? The Admins would still have all the power, we all know who the possible trolls are....

This is just something that's been weighing on my mind. If trolls are supressed quickly, and we remain vigilant, why should everyone who's NOT a troll be denied the chance to join in here?

Well, I voted "no change" for now because my preference is to open the boards completely eventually but not until we're firm with our governance issues so that we can manage the public and the FCC rules about boards with adult forums.

I don't that a speedier opening should be done based on what happens elsewhere.

Jn

The invite process is too long.

Just sayin'.

I agree with Voronwe.

Is there any way around the vacation problem? It seems unfair to make the process so long for everyone to avoid so rare a situation: that someone might be gone for a week and come back to find someone voted in whom they would have vetoed. That's a very bad situation, but how likely is it? And is there a way to avoid it?

Otherwise, discussion and voting could end very quickly--most threads are dead after a few days at most.

By the time we've debated whether to shorten the invites or not - which has to be debated over a reasonable time period out of fairness - those people who you so urgently need to have in here could have had a regular invite thread run and completed.

Apart from the issue of whether the invite process is too long or too short, there are other more pressing issues to deal with. We spent weeks sorting out the invite procedure, now we urgently need to get our governance sorted before we hit the 200 member mark, not spend our time re-hashing decisions taken in the past fortnight.

Amen to that... Leoba.

I want the boards to open, I have always been franky about that - but I want them to be solid and ready too. So, we have to take the time for decisions, solid decisions and a regular way of functionning - and this includes for me to live with a certain number of proceedures that have been decided, even if special circumstances occur... because they are ours.

I want to say more, but one of the orcs has sent a football in the car... and broken a mirror...

Life